Is the Doctrine of the Trinity wrong? (Eternal Generation/ eternally begotten)

[JonC]

If Yahweh is not eternal (if the divine relationship between the Persons of the Trinity changed with the Incarnation) then this should be easy to prove, @37818 .

I have provided Biblical proof that Yahweh remained the same as in the NT in terms of the Persons of the Trinity with several OT examples.

Just show us where the Incarnation changed the divine relationship between Persons of the Trinity (Yahweh)....that Yahweh is not, in fact, eternal but changes....and I will concede my agreement and agree your position is not a heresy.

 

[37818]

Do you have any Biblical evidence that the Incarnation changed the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity?

Before the incarnation.
Hosea 11:9, for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: . . .
After the incarnation.
John 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

God didn't change into man.
But the one{the Son} who became a man didn't cease to be God.

 

[JonC]

Before the incarnation.
Hosea 11:9, for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: . . .
After the incarnation.
John 14:9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

God didn't change into man.
But the one{the Son} who became a man didn't cease to be God.

Uh......no kidding.

This is the problem. You keep repeating Eternal Generation.

Stop creating a smoke screen and answer the question.

Eternal Generation is the doctrine that God DID NOT change into man. That IS the point. YHWH is immutable. Although the Word became flesh this caused NO change in the Word being Eternally Yahweh!!!!! That IS Eternal Generation.


You insist that the Divine relationship between the Persons of the Trinity CHANGED with the Incarnation (a rejection of Eternal Generation).

Prove it. Show us how Yahweh is not eternal in that the Incarnation was a change to the One Triune God.

 

[37818]

If Yahweh is not eternal (if the divine relationship between the Persons of the Trinity changed with the Incarnation) then this should be easy to prove, @37818

Your statement fails to understand Son being the Son is different than the Son being Yahweh. He is both. John 1:1-2. With the God versus was God.

 

[37818]

Prove it. Show us how Yahweh is not eternal in that the Incarnation

Yehwah is never not Eternal. Nowhere did God Himself change in John 1:14. The Word with God changed. The Word didn't change from being God.

 

[JonC]

Your statement fails to understand Son being the Son is different than the Son being Yahweh. He is both. John 1:1-2. With the God versus was God.

No. Again you misunderstand.

The point is that being both (fully man-fully God) DID NOT change YHWH. YHWH is Eternal.

You claim Eternal Generation is false - that the Incarnation altered the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity, that the Incarnation CHANGED YHWH.

Prove it.

Stop lying about the doctrine and prove it wrong. Stop arguing against a strawman and fighting windmills.

 

[37818]

2 John 1:9, Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

 

[JonC]

Yehwah is never not Eternal. Nowhere did God Himself change in John 1:14. The Word with God changed. The Word didn't change from being God.

I hate to tell you this, but you are arguing that YHWH is not eternal in thar the Incarnation somehow changed the One Triune God.

This is the heresy that Eternal Generation guards against, and you deny that doctrine (you specifically stated, repeatedly, that you deny the doctrine).

I am asking you to answer for the heresy.

HOW did the Divene nature of the One God (the relationship of the Persons of the Trinity) change with the Incarnation???

Eternal Generation simply states that the Incarnation did not change the One Triune God because Yahweh is eternal.

You deny this.

 

[37818]

You claim Eternal Generation is false - that the Incarnation altered the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity, that the Incarnation CHANGED YHWH.

Prove it.

Your statement fails to understand Son being the Son is different than the Son being Yahweh. He is both. John 1:1-2. With the God versus was God.

How is being "with God" different than being "was God"?

 

[JonC]

We need to stick to the issue.

Eternal Generation is the sentence in the Doctrine of the Trinity that states that the Incarnation did not change the divine relationship between the Persons of the Trinity. YHWH is eternal.

@37818 rejects that doctrine.

No need to beat around the bush, create smoke, etc.

Just show where the Incarnation created an ontological change in YHWH - that the divine relationship of the Persons within the Godhead changed.

 

[37818]

I hate to tell you this, but you are arguing that YHWH is not eternal in thar the Incarnation somehow changed the One Triune God.

This is the heresy that Eternal Generation guards against, and you deny that doctrine (you specifically stated, repeatedly, that you deny the doctrine).

I am asking you to answer for the heresy.

HOW did the Divene nature of the One God (the relationship of the Persons of the Trinity) change with the Incarnation???

Eternal Generation simply states that the Incarnation did not change the One Triune God because Yahweh is eternal.

You deny this.

I deny generation.or being begotten in order for the eternal Word to be with God.

 

[37818]

I deny generation.or being begotten in order for the eternal Word to be with God.

 

[JonC]

Yehwah is never not Eternal. Nowhere did God Himself change in John 1:14. The Word with God changed. The Word didn't change from being God.

Your claim is that Yahweh (not by the Word becoming flesh but by the Word changed within the Godhead when the Word became flesh).

I am asking you to prove it.

 

[37818]

@JonC,
You do not want to allow my not accepting any kind of generation as part of the Trinity.

 

[JonC]

Again.....you are blowing smoke.

We all believe that.

Eternal Generation is the doctrine that the Incarnation did not change the nature of the One Triune God (YHWH).

You say that the Incarnation CHANGED the relationship of the Persons of the Trinity.

I am asking you to prove it.

 

[37818]

Your claim is that Yahweh (not by the Word becoming flesh but by the Word changed within the Godhead when the Word became flesh).

I am asking you to prove it.

Prove what specifically?
I do not understand what asking.
John 1:14 is in evidence. Done by the Word per John 1:2-3.

What Person because flesh?

 

[JonC]

@JonC,
You do not want to allow my not accepting any kind of generation as part of the Trinity.

No.

I am asking you to prove that the Incarnation changed the relationship between the Persons of rhe Trinity.

Alternatively you could try to prove that the Word does not "come forth" from Yahweh while being eternally Yahweh.


Eternal Generation is NOT the idea that the Word begins with God, or is generated from God. "Generation" here means "comes forth" (as the Word comes forth from God - while eternally being God).


But here you answered my question.

You reject that the Word "comes forth" ("generated") as one Person of the Trinity from the Ine Triune God.


Indeed....you don't believe Eternal Generation.

 

[JonC]

Prove what specifically?
I do not understand what asking.
John 1:14 is in evidence. Done by the Word per John 1:2-3.

Those verses actually support Eternal Generation.

You answered my question witg the last post.

You reject that the Word "comes forth" ("generated") as one Person of the Trinity from the Ine Triune God.

Indeed....you don't believe Eternal Generation.


But I am asking you to prove this.

Prove that the Word does not "come forth" from God (from the Trinity), while being eternally YHWH.

 

[37818]

Those verses actually support Eternal Generation.

You have zero Biblical evidence the term generation is used for the preexisting of the Son of God.

 

[37818]

Prove that the Word does not "come forth" from God (from the Trinity), while being eternally YHWH.

I do not need to.