Is the Land of Israel Still a Special Place to God?

[1689Dave]

Replacement theology is false teaching.

In any case, the point of this thread is that the physical city of Jerusalem and land of Israel were and are special to God. The city and land were never special to Him because the Israelites were any better than any other people; the city and land were are and are special to Him because of God's sovereign choice of that city and land.

I have provided biblical bases for holding that viewpoint.

Replacement theology is false Dispensationalist teaching. It should be "Removal Theology'. When Christ abolished circumcision on the cross, that was the last generation of physical biblical Jews and Israel. For the Father's sake, any who accepts Christ as the Messiah will be grafted back into Israel AKA the Church.

 

[kyredneck]

I will not stoop to your level of directing insulting remarks toward you .

But you'll stoop low enough to spin the scriptures inaccurately your way and away from the truth.

Although the passages have some similarities, they are not speaking of the same thing and have important differences.

No, they are speaking of the same entity, and no, they don't have important differences, there's only your spinning the scriptures more inaccurately away from the truth.

First, Rev. 18:24 speaks of a city in which was found the blood of various people, but Matt. 23:35 does not say that the blood of those people spoken of in that passage was actually found in that city.

Incredible, strain out the gnat and swallow the camel, spin the scriptures more inaccurately away from the truth. The fact is the two women of Revelation are the same two women of Galatians 4.

I've things to do other than going in circles with you at this time, maybe later. @Iconoclast has a good thread that addresses this very topic.

 

[Aaron]

Nehemiah 2:3 And said unto the king, Let the king live for ever: why should not my countenance be sad, when the city, the place of my fathers' sepulchres, lieth waste, and the gates thereof are consumed with fire?

Nehemiah 2:5 And I said unto the king, If it please the king, and if thy servant have found favour in thy sight, that thou wouldest send me unto Judah, unto the city of my fathers' sepulchres, that I may build it.

Godly Nehemiah had a special regard for Jerusalem because it was the city that was the place of his father's tombs.

Many of the choicest servants of God (for example, Hezekiah, Josiah, John the Baptist) have been buried in Jerusalem. For those of us who believe (rightly) in the biblical teaching of the future bodily resurrection of the dead, it seems to me that Jerusalem (and Israel, more broadly speaking) is still a special place to God because so many of His choicest servants have been buried there.

Can a prophet be murdered outside of Jerusalem?

 

[atpollard]

Some believe that the unfaithfulness of Israel means that land is now no longer special to God. What do you believe?

God might have a soft spot for the land and people.
The Six Day War comes to mind.
The desert blooming comes to mind.
[shrug]

Ultimately, it seems like God's business more than mine.

 

[atpollard]

Can a prophet be murdered outside of Jerusalem?

Sure, Jesus was murdered in the valley JUST OUTSIDE of Jerusalem, wasn't He?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

But you'll stoop low enough to spin the scriptures inaccurately your way and away from the truth.



No, they are speaking of the same entity, and no, they don't have important differences, there's only your spinning the scriptures more inaccurately away from the truth.



Incredible, strain out the gnat and swallow the camel, spin the scriptures more inaccurately away from the truth. The fact is the two women of Revelation are the same two women of Galatians 4.

I've things to do other than going in circles with you at this time, maybe later. @Iconoclast has a good thread that addresses this very topic.

These are the expected responses from someone whose faulty theological position is based on superficial treatment of surface similarities between these passages.

Your responses also show that you are incapable of answering the specific points that I made. I will not waste more of my time refuting your wrong position further.

 

[kyredneck]

Third, Rev. 18:24 speaks of a city in which was found the blood of various people. It does not say anything about a specific people upon whom that blood would come. Matt. 23:35, however, says that the blood of the slain people who were spoken of in that passage would come upon that generation of people.

Revelation is referring to that very same 'generation':

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

Let's see how you spin the scriptures inaccurately to force these passages to mean 'thousands of years and still waiting'.

 

[kyredneck]

Can a prophet be murdered outside of Jerusalem?

33 Nevertheless I must go on my way to-day and to-morrow and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem. Lu 13

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Revelation is referring to that very same 'generation':

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;,,,,,,, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Rev 1: 1, 3

I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:11

Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Rev 12: 12

And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.,,,,,,,,,, And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand.,,,,,,,, Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to each man according as his work is.,,,,,,,,,,,,,, He who testifieth these things saith, Yea: I come quickly. Amen: come, Lord Jesus. Rev 22:7,10,12,20

Let's see how you spin the scriptures inaccurately to force these passages to mean 'thousands of years and still waiting'.

I'm not interested in continuing this discussion with you. I have seen enough of how you handle Scripture to know that further discussion with you would not be profitable. I'm especially not going to allow you to derail the subject of this thread by taking it in this different direction.

 

[kyredneck]

I have seen enough of how you handle Scripture

Yea, I handle it accurately, something you claim to do but don’t.

I'm especially not going to allow you to derail the subject of this thread by taking it in this different direction.

Well, l didn’t start the tangent and you’ve willingly participated up until now.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Can a prophet be murdered outside of Jerusalem?

Yes, Jezebel slew the prophets of the Lord, and there is no basis in Scripture to show that she murdered them in Jerusalem; she was the queen in the northern kingdom and had the authority to do so there, but she did not have the authority to do so in the southern kingdom, including in Jerusalem.

1 Kings 18:13 Was it not told my lord what I did when Jezebel slew the prophets of the LORD, how I hid an hundred men of the LORD'S prophets by fifty in a cave, and fed them with bread and water?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I explained in my post that I am not advocating "Replacement Theology", but I explained how "Spiritual Israel" is a continuation of physical Israel.

Jerusalem is not special to God, as we see in the "woman at the well" encounter of John 4. God's sovereign choice of "Canaan's Land" was only for the purpose to giving the nation of Israel a home. I do not agree with your interpretation of Deuteronomy 11:11-12. Israel is important to us in the sense that it's our only ally in the Middle East, but that's all.

No, God's sovereign choice of that land was not only for the purpose of giving that nation a home. You wrongly make them the focal point instead of God.

Scripture shows that His choice of that land preceded any consideration concerning them when it reveals that Melchizedek was already king of Salem and a priest of the most high God prior to his encounter even with Abraham.

Unlike any other city in the world, Jerusalem was already a place that had a true priest of the most high God as its king long before there were any Israelites. Jerusalem was a place of true worship of the true God long before there were any Israelites.

 

[Lodic]

No, God's sovereign choice of that land was not only for the purpose of giving that nation a home. You wrongly make them the focal point instead of God.

Scripture shows that His choice of that land preceded any consideration concerning them when it reveals that Melchizedek was already king of Salem and a priest of the most high God prior to his encounter even with Abraham.

Unlike any other city in the world, Jerusalem was already a place that had a true priest of the most high God as its king long before there were any Israelites. Jerusalem was a place of true worship of the true God long before there were any Israelites.

Then what do you make of John 4:21, where Jesus told the Samaritan woman "an hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father"? Aside from the passage in Deuteronomy 11, what other passages do you believe supports the view that the land of Israel is special to God apart from the people of Israel? Why would any land be especially important to God? (I can see why Texas could be an exception, but I digress.) What is special about that land apart from the fact that it's where the Jews, and ultimately Jesus, came from?

Muslims make a pilgrimage to Mecca because they think it's holy. As Psalms 24:1 tells us, "The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein". Psalms 89:11-12 repeat this theme with "The heavens are Yours, the earth also is Yours; the world and all its fullness, You have founded them. The north and the south, You have created them; Tabor and Hermon rejoice in Your name". The land of Israel's only significance was that this was the land God promised to given them. While it's obviously important to Jews, it has only "historical" significance to Christians. The land can't be anything special to God, as we worship Him from wherever we are.

 

[BILL]

From the time of the garden of Eden the place was special the river Euphrates came out of the garden of Eden.
Genesis 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
Jerusalem is where God Chose to place his name. In Fact it is the throne of the world. The devil said he would rule the world from Jerusalem and he does.
Yes God cares deeply about Jerusalem it is his rightful seat of power , however he was murdered by the husbandmen so they could take his inheritance.
Luke 20:14 But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
So it Beggs the question what was the inheritance?
Romans 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Yes the inheritance promised to Abraham and his seed was the whole world!

Psalms 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Who is the meek?

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Yes Jesus is the meek, his inheritance is the world and the Jews killed him to take over the world!
Karl Marx, george soros, Zuckerberg, Gates, Bezos, all jewish.

Leviticus 26:25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.

What quarrel of what covenant?

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

John 8:33 They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?

TWO PARTIES CLAIMING TO BE THE HEIR OF ABRAHAM YET ONE IS A LIAR AND A MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Then what do you make of John 4:21, where Jesus told the Samaritan woman "an hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father"? Aside from the passage in Deuteronomy 11, what other passages do you believe supports the view that the land of Israel is special to God apart from the people of Israel? Why would any land be especially important to God? (I can see why Texas could be an exception, but I digress.) What is special about that land apart from the fact that it's where the Jews, and ultimately Jesus, came from?

Muslims make a pilgrimage to Mecca because they think it's holy. As Psalms 24:1 tells us, "The earth is the Lord's, and all its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein". Psalms 89:11-12 repeat this theme with "The heavens are Yours, the earth also is Yours; the world and all its fullness, You have founded them. The north and the south, You have created them; Tabor and Hermon rejoice in Your name". The land of Israel's only significance was that this was the land God promised to given them. While it's obviously important to Jews, it has only "historical" significance to Christians. The land can't be anything special to God, as we worship Him from wherever we are.

You continue to ignore what I said about Melchizedek. Either you agree with what I said in that respect and acknowledge its validity to this discussion or you state your disagreement and support your position biblically.

Bringing up other considerations is not the right way to respond to specific statements.

 

[kyredneck]

Bringing up other considerations is not the right way to respond to specific statements.

@Lodic's point with John 4:21 was spot on, accurate, and pertinent to the OP.

 

[Lodic]

You continue to ignore what I said about Melchizedek. Either you agree with what I said in that respect and acknowledge its validity to this discussion or you state your disagreement and support your position biblically.

Bringing up other considerations is not the right way to respond to specific statements.

While Melchizedek was already the king of Salem (Jerusalem) and a priest of God, I don't see how this points to Israel being anything special to God today. The topic of Genesis 14:17-18 is fully explained in Hebrews 7. The place is not the main thing in focus, but the people are. What do you see in these passages that puts the focus on the land instead of Melchizedek himself?

[EDIT] I've mentioned John 4 twice, but you still haven't responded to what Jesus said - "the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father." Seems like a strong Biblical argument against your view.

 

[kyredneck]

This revelation thus teaches us that Jerusalem was a place of the true worship of the one and only living and true God long before the Law was given to the Israelites.

@Lodic's point with John 4:21 was spot on, accurate, and pertinent to the OP.

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father.
22 Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. Jn 4

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when neither in this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, shall ye worship the Father.
22 Ye worship that which ye know not: we worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and truth: for such doth the Father seek to be his worshippers.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth. Jn 4

John 4:21-24 is irrelevant to the point that I am making concerning Melchizedek; the revelation about Melchizedek and Jerusalem proves that God had a special "connection" to Jerusalem long before there were any Israelites.

Regardless of anything that John 4 does or does not teach about what would be true in the future and in what sense that would be true, it does not change what was true in the time of Melchizedek.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

While Melchizedek was already the king of Salem (Jerusalem) and a priest of God, I don't see how this points to Israel being anything special to God today. The topic of Genesis 14:17-18 is fully explained in Hebrews 7. The place is not the main thing in focus, but the people are. What do you see in these passages that puts the focus on the land instead of Melchizedek himself?

[EDIT] I've mentioned John 4 twice, but you still haven't responded to what Jesus said - "the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father." Seems like a strong Biblical argument against your view.

John 4:21-24 is irrelevant to the point that I am making concerning Melchizedek; the revelation about Melchizedek and Jerusalem proves that God had a special "connection" to Jerusalem long before there were any Israelites.

Regardless of anything that John 4 does or does not teach about what would be true in the future and in what sense that would be true, it does not change what was true in the time of Melchizedek.