Is the rapture a relatively new idea of christians?

[Not_hard_to_find]

It was for that very attitude that Jesus came in the first place. Israel felt just like you do.

Also, how do you do this: Yes -- but the desire to do so no longer dwells within. No man can serve two masters, and I have but one. Can you commit adultery with no desire? I think you need to rethink that one. If you were Pastor and maybe you are would you allow your members to do such things as I have listed and remain members of your church?

I reqret your misunderstanding. The desires of the flesh are no longer the driving force within. Instead, the desire to serve our Lord is foremost. It is with the utmost gratitute for God's forgiving grace that His gift is accepted. How wonderful that His love for this world provided that gift.

 

[Brother Bob]

First as far as time is concerned Ed; there are many explanations for that including scripture that 1 day as a thousand years.
and there is this:

A Day Equals One Year



The 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24, however, establishes a principle related to prophetic time that few completely understand. Virtually everyone acknowledges that the 70 weeks are not literally 70 weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years, or 490 years. The principle is that in Bible prophecy, you must substitute a period of a year in place of a day. This is the day=year principle. This equation is clearly established in scripture-

Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

Through there may be counted as days after the coming of the Lord as far as the Children of God it is eternity.

To foreverly be with the Lord when we meet Him in the Cloud, and time for them WILL be no more.




​

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now to your post:

1. Resurrection of Jesus
WHO: Jesus
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
are possible
References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believeing God, especially
those who believed in God's Messiah
WHEN: 33AD
WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

I take these two Resurrection to be One Resurrection which is the First resurrection when Jesus arose along with the bodies of many of the Saints. Even you say they both are 33ad Ed;

Matt; 27
"52": And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

"53": And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

"54": Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
(Even the soldiers confess that it was Jesus because of the fear that came upon them, so will it be in the end of time but He will shake the Heavens also).

Hebrews, chapter 12

25": See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

"26": Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

"27": And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

"28": Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

"29": For our God is a consuming fire.

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 3 Sept 2005;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

Jesus spoke of all these 3 resurrections being One. You say the first part is remaining saints of Israel but Jesus said all nations.

KJMatt.24

"14": And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

"15": When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

"16": Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

"17": Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

"18": Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

"19": And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

"20": But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

"21": For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

"22": And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. (This is the great Tribulations that the elect also shall suffer and those days will be shortened for their sake, It is just before the General Resurrection).


Mark, chapter 13
20": And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.

1 Corinthians, chapter 15
"22": For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

"23": But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

"24": Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.


1 Thessalonians, chapter 4

"13": But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

"14": For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

"15": For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

"16": For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

"17": Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"18": Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

It says when we shall be delivered up then will the end come.

That which is to take place after the redemption of the saved is the wrath of God which in the end after He hath poured out the seven vials of wrath then it will be finished.

This is How Jesus said it would be, at the end. I heard a "world wide church of God preacher give seven resurrections, so he had you beat by two Ed;". Jesus gave one General Resurrection to come.("28": Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, )


I believe there has been a First Resurrection when Jesus and the bodies of the saints arose and there is a general Resurrection coming that Jesus spoke of.


John, chapter 5
"26": For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

"27": And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

"28": Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

"29": And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Jesus made it simple for us all.

Isa 35:8¶And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it [shall be] for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err [therein].

 

[Brother Bob]

Not hard to find;
I reqret your misunderstanding. The desires of the flesh are no longer the driving force within. Instead, the desire to serve our Lord is foremost. It is with the utmost gratitute for God's forgiving grace that His gift is accepted. How wonderful that His love for this world provided that gift.

Thanks for that explanation.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Thank you for all the scripture. All eschatolgoies use the
same scriptures???

Brother Bob: //Jesus gave one General Resurrection to
come.("28": Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming,
in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, )//

You sacrafice much understanding of the Bible and many hopes
on the alter of your misunderstanding of the word 'hour'
in this verse. BTW, what is the verse other than 'verse 28'?)

Others misunderstand this verse:

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV1611 Edition):
But the day of the Lord wil come as a thiefe in the night,
in the which the heauens shall passe away with a great noise,
and the Elements shall melt with feruent heate,
the earth also and the works that are therin shalbe burnt vp.

When Revelation 20 speaks of at least 1,000 years between
the Second Coming in Revelation 19 and the later
destruction of the earth (and replacement by the new
heavens and the new earth).

Obviously then, DAY OF THE LORD is at least 1,000
years long. BTW, if those 1,000 years have already expired,
we must now be living now in the lake of fire or heaven.
Reading the local newspaper this morning, I sugest hell as
the most likely :-(

Again, the meaning in prophetic scripture:

hour = the appropriate time
day = the appropriate time
day of the Lord = the appropriate time for God
--- to intervene to save humankind from self-destruction
month = the appropriate time
year = the appropriate time

There are on the Baptist Board two sets of definitions
that are contradictory between the two.

Here is my set of definitins:

Resurrection1 - the supernatural raising of the dead and
bestowing a heavenly body to a dead person

Rapture1 - the supernatural bestowing
a heavenly body to a living person

The person who gave the second set of definitions appears to be gone
(perchance he has a REAL LIFE somewhere?):

Resurrection2 - a resurrection1 followed immediately by a
rapture1 of the Tribulation Period elect saints (most of whom had their
head chopped off) when Jesus comes in power and glory at
the end of the Tribulation Period to destroy the antichrist
and set up a physical Millinnial Messanic Kingdom on earth.

Rapture2 - a resurrection1 followed immediately by a
rapture1 of the Church Age (time of the Gentiles) born-again
elect saints when Jesus comes to collect His Church
(body of Christ, bride of Christ) before the revelation
of the Antichrist and the start of the Tribulation Period.

As can be seen, there are those who do NOT believe in
the Rapture2 but believe in the Rapture1. Which confuses
me (and probably them) no end when they say:
'there is no rapture, and the church didn't believe
in it until 1830'. The Rapture1 is
easier to see from the scripture than is the Rapture2.
But I'll continue to talk about the Rapture2 (generally
using the Rapture1 termonology). In fact
sometime I'll call the Rapture2 a
resurrection/rapture/body-swap.

 

[Brother Bob]

hour = the appropriate time
day = the appropriate time
day of the Lord = the appropriate time for God
--- to intervene to save humankind from self-destruction
month = the appropriate time
year = the appropriate time

Pick either one you want the point is that Jesus said when it comes whichever one you pick, (All that are in the grave shall come forth).
1. It doesn't say some will raise here and some then and the rest then, It says ALL that are in the grave shall come forth and unto them that have done good the resurrection of life and unto them that have done evil the resurrection of damnation.
John, chapter 5
"26": For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

"27": And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

"28": Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

"29": And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV1611 Edition):
But the day of the Lord wil come as a thiefe in the night,
in the which the heauens shall passe away with a great noise,
and the Elements shall melt with feruent heate,
the earth also and the works that are therin shalbe burnt vp.

Even what you quote is a quick work the Lord will do, not a 1000 years.
Why do you say if the 1000 year is over we either in Heaven or Hell? According to the Scriptures there are saints in Heaven today both soul and bodies. They arose with Jesus. The 1000 years spoke of their time and now we waiting on ours.

Jesus used the hour so I figured that it was ok for me to use it also. I didn't realize and still don't that it is a misunderstanding of the word. Even if its an appointed time makes little difference at all for whenever ALL that are in the grave will get up.

Resurrection1 - the supernatural raising of the dead and
bestowing a heavenly body to a dead person

Rapture1 - the supernatural bestowing
a heavenly body to a living person

1 Corinthians, chapter 15
"34": Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

"35": But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

"36": Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

What do you think that change is Ed; that will happen when the "dead in Christ shall rise first and we that are left and remain shall be changed in a moment a twinkling of an eye"? Paul said you had to die in order to be made alive.


I don't get this always saying it is I who misunderstands. Even Paul didn't claim to know that much and Peter said Paul's epistles were hard to understand. Also, we only see through a glass darkly and here we know in part. Ed; I don't think any of us knows it all and I carefully read your writings and find that many of them meet with mine but are just not in the same order. I just don't believe in all these resurrections when Jesus said there is one coming for ALL.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Ed:

3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
of the Old Testament Saints
WHEN: Some date after 3 Sept 2005;
at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
the Tribulation
WHERE: Worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
this resurrection is followed in but a
moment by the translation of the living
saints into a glorified heavenly body like
that of Jesus
References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
who reject the Mark of the Beast
WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
References: Revelation 20:4-6,

5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
at the beginning of eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: i don't know, God does
HOW: i don't know, God does
WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
References: Revelation 20:12-15

Jesus spoke of all these 3 resurrections being One. You say the first part is remaining saints of Israel but Jesus said all nations.

Perchance Jesus did sumarize the 3 resurrections as one.
In Daniel 12 all 5 resurrections are sumarized as one.
In 2 Peter3:10 Brother Peter sumarizes
over 1,000 human years (1 God day) in a COMMA (KJV1611 Edition)
or a SERMI-COLON (KJV1769 Edition) or maybe a PERIOD (NIV).

What is wrong with realizing that prophetic scripture uses
literary devices? What is wrong with knowning the literary
devices that are used in the Bible?

Here is a good link for studying FIGURES OF SPEACH:

http://www.godstruthfortoday.org/Library/bullinger/FiguresOfSpeech.html#omission

Brother Bob: //I don't get this always saying it is I who misunderstands. ...
I just don't believe in all these resurrections when Jesus said
there is one coming for ALL.//

Jesus sumarized all of His resurrections as one.
John sumarized all of God's resurrections as two:
A. the First Resurrection (Rev 20)
B. the Second Resurrection (implied in Rev 20)
Ed listed five and delineated the differences: different
why?, different when? (BTW, the post-tribualtion
pre-mills note the difference between 3 & 4 by the WHY?
but not by the WHEN?)
When are we going into debating these details?

Note that I allowed as how there may be other
resurrections. My 5-resurrection posting is an evangelic
message. Do you think we should not have evangelic
messages?

Feel free to point out flaws in my 5 RESURRECTIONS document.
Many others have pointed them out over the 12 years i've used
this document and it keeps getting stronger, and righter, and corrector!

What you don't understand can squash your HOPE.

Brother Bob: //Ed; I don't think any of us knows it all ... //

Yes you are right. However the GREAT COMMISSION
doesn't say "when you finally know it all ... "
it says GO, TEACH, BAPTIZE.

 

[Brother Bob]

Yes you are right. However the GREAT COMMISSION
doesn't say "when you finally know it all ... "
it says GO, TEACH, BAPTIZE.

I guess that is what we are doing Ed;

Perchance Jesus did sumarize the 3 resurrections as one.
In Daniel 12 all 5 resurrections are sumarized as one.
In 2 Peter3:10 Brother Peter sumarizes
over 1,000 human years (1 God day) in a COMMA (KJV1611 Edition)
or a SERMI-COLON (KJV1769 Edition) or maybe a PERIOD (NIV).

What is wrong with realizing that prophetic scripture uses
literary devices? What is wrong with knowning the literary
devices that are used in the Bible?

I have no problem whatsoever with you using the literary devices as long as you agree that Jesus spoke of it as in One. I am glad we talked for now I know more of what you are expressing. Thanks, I can read and study what you have to say much better now that you have told me this.

Mat 24:36¶But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mat 24:37But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.