Is the Rejection of Christ 'the' Damning Sin?

[steaver]

The gospel according to Scripture: Rom 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The gospel according to Steaver as I understand him: Wherefore, by one man sin entered the world and all sinned in Adam, so original sin passed upon and made all men sinners because Adam is the father of all men.

For some strange reason I like the way Romans reads.:thumbsup:

Feel free Steaver to do the gospel according to HP.

Not sure what would be unclear about Romans 5:12 for you. It reads very clearly to me.

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Tom Butler: I think we have to distinguish between unbelief and rejection. To reject means we have been exposed to the truth and rejected it. That's not the same as not believing the truth because we don't know what it is.

HP: There is a world of difference between rejecting what you know and failing to accept because one has no knowledge whatsoever as you aptly point out.

Tom Butler: For instance, up to the point of their conversions, Cornelius and Lydia had not rejected Christ. They both were fervent worshipers of God. One could say that neither was in a state of unbelief in the sense that they were active unbelievers. Yet both were unsaved and needed the gospel.

HP: They well could have been walking in all the light they had been given. No rejection of Christ there.

Tom Butler: Do I understand all this? No. I do understand that there is a relationship between faith in Christ and our salvation. But I think we have to be careful and try to be precise in the language we use, lest we confuse rather than clarify.

HP: Agreed. Spiritual blindness for any number of reasons can also be the cause of confusion in some individuals minds. Possibly some have rejected light at a point they could have received truth, but now the truth has became darkness, and now “how great that darkness” has became.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DMHarris: My thoughts on this, is what's the difference with rejecting Christ and those who die never hearing the Gospel. Do all go to the lake of fire? What about babies and infants etc killed in war or abortion etc etc?

HP: Scripture states that all are under sin having sinned that have came to the age of accountability. So all those rejecting Christ and t hose that have not heard of Him but have violated the law of God via their conscience will in fact be lost.

DMH: Or is God more gracious than we can ever know.

HP: He has given us His Word that spells out clearly who will be saved and those that will miss it. I cannot believe He will just overlook His own Word and save some apart from the conditions He has set forth.

DMH: Can God save if He wishes regardless of response. His good pleasure and will.

HP: I would have to say the ’possibility’ exists He could, but His Word tells us differently as I read it.

DMH: How efficacious is the blood of Christ?

HP: Just as efficacious as He has set forth in his Word that it is. There are clear stated conditions for man to fulfill, without which no man shall be saved.

 

[steaver]

HP: Scripture states that all are under sin having sinned that have came to the age of accountability.

What scripture are you suggesting speaks of an "age of accountability for sin"?

 

[Revmitchell]

Sin is the damning sin. No need to complicate the simple. And there is no scripture that speaks to the age of accountability

 

[steaver]

Sin is the damning sin. No need to complicate the simple. And there is no scripture that speaks to the age of accountability

I didn't ever read any scripture that speaks of an age of accountability. That is why I want to know why HP keeps saying there is such a thing. I thought maybe I overlooked something.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/A264

Here is a link to an article by John MacArthur, yes that is right, John MacArthur, on the subject of the age of accountability. I would be of the opinion that if you cannot comprehend from reason and Scripture the reality of such an age, you might be suffering from bad bout of Calvinitis. There are a host of links that will help the open mind over such Calvinistic roadblocks to reason if one will simple do a little study. :thumbsup:

It is also true that the Jews clearly taught of such an age of accountability. Only a Calvinist, as far as I know, would even consider refuting such a universally understood notion.

 

[steaver]

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/A264

Here is a link to an article by John MacArthur, yes that is right, John MacArthur, on the subject of the age of accountability. I would be of the opinion that if you cannot comprehend from reason and Scripture the reality of such an age, you might be suffering from bad bout of Calvinitis. There are a host of links that will help the open mind over such Calvinistic roadblocks to reason if one will simple do a little study. :thumbsup:

It is also true that the Jews clearly taught of such an age of accountability. Only a Calvinist, as far as I know, would even consider refuting such a universally understood notion.

This is interesting. So you hold a doctrine that you cannot defend just by posting a couple of scripture refferences? Traditions are fine but on this board I like to dig into "what has been written" (Scripture that is).

:thumbsup:

 

[steaver]

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/A264

Here is a link to an article by John MacArthur, yes that is right, John MacArthur, on the subject of the age of accountability. I would be of the opinion that if you cannot comprehend from reason and Scripture the reality of such an age, you might be suffering from bad bout of Calvinitis. There are a host of links that will help the open mind over such Calvinistic roadblocks to reason if one will simple do a little study. :thumbsup:

It is also true that the Jews clearly taught of such an age of accountability. Only a Calvinist, as far as I know, would even consider refuting such a universally understood notion.

I read the article and I say "thanks"! It reveals that MacArthur could not defend the doctrine either, nor the Jews traditions.

I must say that this surprises me that you would hold a doctrine totally foriegn to Scripture. And you like to lable others as those in the past holding strange doctrines, like Calvinist. So are you a MacArthurist? Of course not, you simply agree with a couple of things he has said even though he himself said it was of his "opinion" and there is no scripture to back it up.

Remember your declaration of an "age of accountability" the next time you demand a "book, chapter and verse" from a fellow debater.

:jesus:

 

[Revmitchell]

I think the best way to answer that is to say this: There is no "age of accountability" identified in Scripture, as such. There is nothing in the Bible that says, "Here is the age and from here on you are responsible!"

There is no scripture which speaks to this and it is best left unexplained. Our job is to train up our children in the way that they should go. That is the same regardless of any age of accountability. Do what you are supposed to be doing and the age of accountability has no real bearing.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

The age of accountability has everything to do with placing 'moral' blame or praise on any being capable of moral agency.

Only one devoid of any and sense of reason and justice would treat and correct and punish all children in the same manner regardless of their ability to comprehend. Any system of justice that would show no regard for the age of accountability would be wickedly absurd.

What amazes me is why some deny in their theology what in reality they practice every day, unless simply devoid of all reason and sense of justice.

 

[Revmitchell]

What amazes me is why some deny in their theology what in reality they practice every day, unless simply devoid of all reason and sense of justice.

So who is it that is doing this?

 

[billwald]

>What scripture are you suggesting speaks of an "age of accountability for sin"?

Luke 2:42-50. <G>

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

RM: So who is it that is doing this?

HP: Any and everyone that denies the validity and reality of an age of accountability. Even if there was not a Scripture to be found in support of such a notion, the truth is so self-evident that to deny it is to make a mockery of the immutable truths of justice He instills with the hearts and minds of every moral human being.

 

[steaver]

Only one devoid of any and sense of reason and justice would treat and correct and punish all children in the same manner regardless of their ability to comprehend.

No one would disagree with this. But it has nothing to do with any man made doctrine called "age of accountability". Scripture is clear that all are cursed with sin from conception and in need of Christ's saving grace. How God does this concerning those who cannot comprehend and "accept" Christ is not revealed unto us. But to make up things like "age of accountability" only makes one appear to go beyond what is written in order to prop up a faulty pov.

There is no such doctrine concerning salvation and you should avoid repeating it. It only makes one look a bit desperate. At the very least when you say it please tell people that it is only an opinion of yours and you cannot support it with scripture. You wouldn't want to mislead anyone. Teachers will receive the greater condemnation (James).

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: No one would disagree with this. But it has nothing to do with any man made doctrine called "age of accountability".

HP: If it is truth, it comes from God. If God indicates it is truth one needs to examine their doctrines in light of it, for failure to do so is to fail to utilize the most basic of truths to discover deeper truths.

You will never arrive at sound theology by careless avoidance of God’s truth, wherever it is revealed. Truth should harmonize with truth, whether it is found in Scripture, first truths of reason, matters of fact or truths of immutable justice. Our duty as theologians to is to see if we error as theologians or philosophers, and to see that both are in harmony as much as possible, avoiding any sign of an absurdity.

The notion that God blames infants for being born precisely as they are created is absolutely pure absurdity. Such absurdity contradicts clear passages of Scripture as well at cavils at any semblance of justice or reason.

 

[steaver]

HP: If it is truth, it comes from God. If God indicates it is truth one needs to examine their doctrines in light of it, for failure to do so is to fail to utilize the most basic of truths to discover deeper truths.

You will never arrive at sound theology by careless avoidance of God’s truth, wherever it is revealed. Truth should harmonize with truth, whether it is found in Scripture, first truths of reason, matters of fact or truths of immutable justice. Our duty as theologians to is to see if we error as theologians or philosophers, and to see that both are in harmony as much as possible, avoiding any sign of an absurdity.

The notion that God blames infants for being born precisely as they are created is absolutely pure absurdity. Such absurdity contradicts clear passages of Scripture as well at cavils at any semblance of justice or reason.

You are declaring God absurd. God is the One who said ALL are cursed through Adam. God said NOTHING about any "age of accountability" for the curse to become in affect. I don't understand why you of all people would cling to a doctrine which has zero support from scripture.

God said ALL are cursed through Adam and ANY saved must be saved by Jesus. Remember, no one disagrees with your speach of "reason and justice". It just doesn't have anything to do with the curse and atonement of sin.

:jesus:

 

[DHK]

HP: Any and everyone that denies the validity and reality of an age of accountability. Even if there was not a Scripture to be found in support of such a notion, the truth is so self-evident that to deny it is to make a mockery of the immutable truths of justice He instills with the hearts and minds of every moral human being.

This is the kind of statement that you make concerning the inherent sin nature of man--the sin nature that he inherits from Adam. You deny it. And then you come up with your own theory in spite of the fact that the depravity of man is taught in Scripture and backed up by Scripture. Then you make a preposterous statement like above simply based on your opinion that your truth is so self-evident that to deny it is to make a mockery of the immutable truths of justice He instills, etc., etc.,..."
No Scripture HP, No Scripture. Just your unsubstantiated opinion--over and over again.

 

[Revmitchell]

HP: Any and everyone that denies the validity and reality of an age of accountability.

Who is this?

Even if there was not a Scripture to be found in support of such a notion, the truth is so self-evident that to deny it is to make a mockery of the immutable truths of justice He instills with the hearts and minds of every moral human being.

So your heart and mind is equal to scripture? How do you know the truth is instilled in the hearts and minds by God? What is your standard for determining that?

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

RM: So your heart and mind is equal to scripture? How do you know the truth is instilled in the hearts and minds by God? What is your standard for determining that?

HP: Not my heart and mind, but the revelation to my heart and mind via the Holy Spirit is equally God’s testimony to my heart. The Spirit beareth witness to ones heart and mind, and universally so I might add, on the reality of an age of accountability among other matters of fact, truths of immutable justice and first truths of reason. Apart from those intuitive guides you could not tell your right hand from the left concerning Scripture.

Some truths are simply self evident, deriving their impetus from the wisdom God placed within your heart……long before your theological conclusions obviously confounded such enlightenment.