Is the SBC getting liberal?

[Reynolds]

Is this thread confused by using "liberal" in two different spheres? Liberalism in any denomination is a DOCTRINAL issue based on theological interpretations.

I do not equate this with social/political liberal views (like the wonderful push of the SBC against the alt-right hate crimes)

Why should the SBC push against "alt right" hate crimes? The SBC should push against ALL hate, except the hate of sin its self. Why are we choosing types of hate to push against? Why is certain hate getting special treatment. Why not push against left liberal hate? The house majority whip was shot last week. If we were going to choose a hate to hate, liberal hate would have been the more timely one. Choosing either to target was extreme poor judgment.

 

[Revmitchell]

Is this thread confused by using "liberal" in two different spheres? Liberalism in any denomination is a DOCTRINAL issue based on theological interpretations.

I do not equate this with social/political liberal views (like the wonderful push of the SBC against the alt-right hate crimes)

Liberalism is always used in multiple spheres. Not sure how that is confusing when I made clear the use of liberalism with the term "socially". This is how I use it, it is how many if not most people use it, and that is how I am going to continue to use it.

 

[Yeshua1]

TMI ~ sorry, I can't not remove my post. Maybe you can. I have to remind myself TMI is unacceptable on this forum.

liberal ~
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

The fact is;
The world at large is getting more and more liberal.

In area of theology, more like the persons who reject eternal truths of holy scriptures!

 

[Happy]

In area of theology, more like the persons who reject eternal truths of holy scriptures!

No clue your point.

 

[Yeshua1]

Liberals are even more closed minded than conservatives, just try to question any of their held sacred cows!

 

[Happy]

Liberals are even more closed minded than conservatives, just try to question any of their held sacred cows!

LOL ~ okay, gotcha.

 

[TCassidy]

I agree with Dr. Bob. The revisionists have re-defined "liberal" to mean "anything I don't like." They completely ignore the actual meaning of the word when used in a theological context.

 

[Revmitchell]

I don't like Calvinism but I do not call it liberal. I will say that I use liberal in any situation where standards are being dropped, lessened, made inferior to what was previously held to. It is possible to be wrong (i.e. calvinism) without being liberal.

 

[rlvaughn]

I am not Southern Baptist, but interact with friends, churches, etc., who are. My comments are based on my personal experiences and observations -- which means they are also limited by and to my personal experiences and observations.

I believe the convention is getting much more liberal as a southeren baptist. The problem lies in both the younger generation, which I am a part of, and reduced fidelity to the bible.

1. Charismatic influence

I don't see much of this, though there are some churches that are influenced by Charismatics. Yet, in some cases this is not a matter of liberal interpretation of the Bible, but a different interpretation of the Bible. Differences are not necessarily a reflection of liberalism -- even when they are wrong. It is more about how they are arrived at.

2. Using reason and logic to answer a serious question or seek guidance for a serious problem instead of going to the bible

American Christians and churches are severely infected with this disease, but it is not any more peculiar to Southern Baptist than others, as far as I can tell.

3. Growing acceptance of popular culture
4. Increased acceptance of divorce and divorcee culture
5. Some acceptance of the whole "relevance" church fad

These are areas that can be influenced by a liberal approach to scripture, but on the other hand these issues, existing first, can lead to a liberal approach to interpreting Scripture. Again, I don't see this as a peculiar-to-Southern-Baptists problem.

6. More leadership roles for women

This probably varies by location, but I don't see any move toward placing women in leadership roles such as pastors by Southern Baptists in this area. I would think the general trend is against it.

7. An "ecumenical spirit" especially towards Rome and other Protestants, despite our Anabaptist history

I see some of this among some Southern Baptists, and a move in the other direction among others.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I am not Southern Baptist, but interact with friends, churches, etc., who are. My comments are based on my personal experiences and observations -- which means they are also limited by and to my personal experiences and observations.
I don't see much of this, though there are some churches that are influenced by Charismatics. Yet, in some cases this is not a matter of liberal interpretation of the Bible, but a different interpretation of the Bible. Differences are not necessarily a reflection of liberalism -- even when they are wrong. It is more about how they are arrived at.
American Christians and churches are severely infected with this disease, but it is not any more peculiar to Southern Baptist than others, as far as I can tell.
These are areas that can be influenced by a liberal approach to scripture, but on the other hand these issues, existing first, can lead to a liberal approach to interpreting Scripture. Again, I don't see this as a peculiar-to-Southern-Baptists problem.
This probably varies by location, but I don't see any move toward placing women in leadership roles such as pastors by Southern Baptists in this area. I would think the general trend is against it.
I see some of this among some Southern Baptists, and a move in the other direction among others.

Thank you for your honest and astute treatment rivaughn.

My fears are probably based on a few things:

1. I live in formerly conservative, but increasingly liberal Orlando, Florida.
2. My fears are probably based more on the general direction of the American church, which seems to be towards a kind of conservative mainline faith that looks nothing like historical (Ana)Baptist theology [i.e. biblical theology].
3. My fears about my own generation of Christians, which includes the drop outs and deconverters

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I agree with Dr. Bob. The revisionists have re-defined "liberal" to mean "anything I don't like." They completely ignore the actual meaning of the word when used in a theological context.

I myself did do that a bit. I am interpreting liberal as to the left of me, and I am sorry that I did. Seeing for instance I believe women should hold no church offices, that puts me to the right of many people even in the southern baptist denomination.

 

[rlvaughn]

Thank you for your honest and astute treatment rivaughn.

My fears are probably based on a few things:

1. I live in formerly conservative, but increasingly liberal Orlando, Florida.
2. My fears are probably based more on the general direction of the American church, which seems to be towards a kind of conservative mainline faith that looks nothing like historical (Ana)Baptist theology [i.e. biblical theology].
3. My fears about my own generation of Christians, which includes the drop outs and deconverters

No doubt we each evaluate these kinds of things from our own perspective, sort of like the parable of the blind men and the elephant.

 

[TCassidy]

I don't think the primary problem with the SBC is Theological Liberalism (Modernism).

I think the greater problem is a breakdown in ecclesiastical separation that refuses to condemn and separate from Theological Liberalism.

It was that breakdown that caused the Convention to slowly slip into Liberalism from the 1940s through the 1990s. Praise the Lord that trend was reversed.

However, the cause of that trend is once again rearing its ugly head and a spirit of cooperation, regardless of the cost, is once again getting popular among many in Convention leadership.

We must never sacrifice doctrinal purity on the altar of social expediency. Never!

 

[Salty]

Liberal also means to give freely - ie we should be very liberal with our giving to God.

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't think the primary problem with the SBC is Theological Liberalism (Modernism).

I think the greater problem is a breakdown in ecclesiastical separation that refuses to condemn and separate from Theological Liberalism.

It was that breakdown that caused the Convention to slowly slip into Liberalism from the 1940s through the 1990s. Praise the Lord that trend was reversed.

However, the cause of that trend is once again rearing its ugly head and a spirit of cooperation, regardless of the cost, is once again getting popular among many in Convention leadership.

We must never sacrifice doctrinal purity on the altar of social expediency. Never!

The "devil in the details" though is that the Lord has a much broader camp than some think!
As some think that we musty separate over things such as Versions, worship styles, whether calvinistic or not, Baptist or not!

 

[Reynolds]

One thing about the SBC that has annoyed me for quite some time is that we get on tangents. We pick A SIN we are going take a stand against. The latest example of this trend is the alt-right hate, non-sense resolution that was passed. I see the SBC as being extremely hypocritical on many of the sins we take a stand against. We pick and choose them. Homosexuality comes to mind. I 100% oppose homosexuality in all ways. It is sin. It is not excusable. etc. etc. For some reason, it is now some type special sin that gets its own pedestal. We as Christians should oppose all sexual sin. Adultery, fornication, and homosexuality. Why dont we give adultery and fornication the same degree of importance we give homosexuality?

 

[rlvaughn]

Why don't we give adultery and fornication the same degree of importance we give homosexuality?

Maybe not as many members engaged in homosexual sin as are fornicating and committing adultery??

 

[Reynolds]

Maybe not as many members engaged in homosexual sin as are fornicating and committing adultery??

My point exactly. We draw the line and take the stand just past where we think we could ever go. Hey I might slip up and cheat on my wife one day, but I know I will never lie with a man, so I am going to take a stand against the latter.

 

[TCassidy]

Why dont we give adultery and fornication the same degree of importance we give homosexuality?

Uh, I do.

 

[Reynolds]

Uh, I do.

I commend you for that. The convention does not seem to.