Is there A Baptism In the holy Spirit For today?

[Tom Butler]

awaken, if tongues do divide, as you say, and the division is of Satan, isn't there a lesson we should take from that?

I know of more than one instance where some folks have sought to introduce tongues into their congregation. In every instance, it produced conflict and division--without exception. Only when those people were separated from the congregations did peace return.

 

[Iconoclast]

I will agree that no one is to add to or TAKE AWAY from the Word of God! It is complete and will come to pass as everything has been written.

Not quite sure where you stand on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, do you believe we are baptized today with the Holy Spirit?

If we agree that we have a complete word...that is half the battle:thumbs:

I believe their the whole church...Jews,samaritans,gentiles, are All baptized into one body...In Acts. Individuals we are told in eph 2...are "quickened " by the Spirit...being made alive from the dead...at regeneration.Spirit baptism is what places us in Union with Christ.
This is spoken of in Romans 6:
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


This is what Spirit baptism does for all believers....Jesus died a covenant death for the elect.When he died, they died in him, we he rose, we rose in Him.
The church as the Nt temple was Spirit baptized at pentecost. We were not born yet. The Spirit when we are born from above,makes it effectual to us....Not many Spirit baptisms...one Baptism eph4,1 cor 12:13

 

[Iconoclast]

I am amazed at how many people here don't seem to know the difference between baptism and filling.

Baptism is you in the water.

Filling is the water in you.

Same is true regarding the Spirit.

Baptism is you in the Holy Spirit.

Filling is the Holy Spirit in you.

Can we explore this a bit???

I am not sure this fits as it should.

 

[awaken]

I'm glad to read this.

But here is what you said in post 47 of your thread on 1 Cor. 12-14:

"Tongues divide." By this statement you excused the tongues speakers who have three times tried to divide my church and steal the sheep God has given me to care for. This statement tacitly says it is all right for tongues speakers to split churches, because it is not their fault but Satan's. When I directly asked you several times after that if it is all right for the tongues speakers to split churches, you refused to answer. Therefore I had every right to assume you think it is all right for tongues speakers to split churches.

You have still never come out against them stealing sheep, which I also asked you about more than once, so I'm assuming you think that is all right.

You are known by your words, but also what you do not say.

I have been part of a church split (not because of tongues) but because of a pastor that became a dictator instead of a pastor. Satan is the cause of most church splits, you want to blame people! Ok, well who are the people listening too? SATAN!

I can not judge why the people left in your church? You seem to have a problem with it and still have not reconciled it within yourself. So now you want to take it all out on me because you lost some of God's sheep. I am not playing that game!

I have already said I do not think any church should split! They should all be in unity!

 

[awaken]

If we agree that we have a complete word...that is half the battle:thumbs:

I believe their the whole church...Jews,samaritans,gentiles, are All baptized into one body...In Acts. Individuals we are told in eph 2...are "quickened " by the Spirit...being made alive from the dead...at regeneration.Spirit baptism is what places us in Union with Christ.
This is spoken of in Romans 6:
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


This is what Spirit baptism does for all believers....Jesus died a covenant death for the elect.When he died, they died in him, we he rose, we rose in Him.
The church as the Nt temple was Spirit baptized at pentecost. We were not born yet. The Spirit when we are born from above,makes it effectual to us....Not many Spirit baptisms...one Baptism eph4,1 cor 12:13

ok, So you believe that the baptism and birth is all one? The purpose of the baptism is for bringing is in the body of Christ? What about Act 1:8? What purpose do you see in that scripture?

 

[awaken]

awaken, if tongues do divide, as you say, and the division is of Satan, isn't there a lesson we should take from that?

I know of more than one instance where some folks have sought to introduce tongues into their congregation. In every instance, it produced conflict and division--without exception. Only when those people were separated from the congregations did peace return.

I believe that church splits are of satan! He does not want unity! God wants unity in the truth.

So explain to me how the sword divides?

 

[Iconoclast]

ok, So you believe that the baptism and birth is all one? The purpose of the baptism is for bringing is in the body of Christ? What about Act 1:8? What purpose do you see in that scripture?

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

To live a christian life as a witness requires the power of the Spirit to worship and serve Jesus, to be able to receive the word from God, the power to mortify sin,and to do good works which were ordained for us to do.

see here ;

Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers;

3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.

8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.

9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

The Spirit is spoken of in all the epistles...helping us learn, worship, and serve Jesus...but it does not speak of revelatory gifts in the lives of the everyday christian.

 

[TCassidy]

Can we explore this a bit???

I am not sure this fits as it should.

It is quite simple and self explanatory. If it does not fit your doctrinal paradigm I suggest you adjust your doctrinal paradigm.

 

[awaken]

The Spirit is spoken of in all the epistles...helping us learn, worship, and serve Jesus...but it does not speak of revelatory gifts in the lives of the everyday christian.

So 1 Corinthians 12 is not for everyday christians?

 

[DHK]

So 1 Corinthians 12 is not for everyday christians?

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

A list of the gifts.

Do we still have the apostles today?
Do we still have the prophets today?

 

[plain_n_simple]

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

A list of the gifts.

Do we still have the apostles today?
Do we still have the prophets today?

Yes we do still have them.

 

[DHK]

Yes we do still have them.

The apostles are the authors of the NT, and the prophets, the authors of the OT. Only in that sense do we still have them. The 12 died off by the end of the first century as did all of the sign gifts.

 

[saturneptune]

Yes we do still have them.

No we do not. There are three requirements for tongues. One, that there be a person to receive the message, two, that there be an interpreter, and three, it message be edifying to the church. A thread was started to document in detail how all three of these elements were met. Not one poster could do such.

No one has been raised from the dead since the apostles. As far as healing, no doubt the Lord can and does for His purposes. He does not need a circus clown to complete the act. People who perform side shows such as Ernest Angsley make a mockery to the lost world. That goes for Mr. Hinn and Mr. Tilton also. The motive is always the gathering of money, hardly a gift of the Holy Spirit. "Come out thou evil and deaf spirit," "say baby," and thumping people on the forehead are not manifestations of the Holy Spirit. If there are levels of hell, those who use gifts or former gifts of God to inflate their bank account will have a front row seat.

 

[plain_n_simple]

There are numerous documented accounts of healing, miracles, and people being raised from the dead over the past year alone all over the world. It is love that drives these people.

 

[Don]

There are numerous documented accounts of healing, miracles, and people being raised from the dead over the past year alone all over the world. It is love that drives these people.

I would much appreciate seeing some of these documented, verified accounts of people being raised from the dead.

 

[DHK]

There are numerous documented accounts of healing, miracles, and people being raised from the dead over the past year alone all over the world. It is love that drives these people.

1. That doesn't mean that the apostles are still alive, nor does it prove the doctrine of apostolic succession.
2. There has never been a documented case of people being raised from the dead. They are anecdotal at best.
3. Love drives many people, like Mother Theresa. But Mother Theresa, by her own writings, was not a saved person.
4. We all believe that God still heals; we do not believe that the gift of healing is in existence. Read how Peter was able to heal ALL that came to him from ALL the cities round about Jerusalem, no matter how sick they were. (Acts 5:16). Not one did he turn away. The so-called faith healers of today cannot do that.
5. Read up on the doctrines of today's faith healers:
Benny Hinn believes in a "nine-person" trinity. Each person being composed of three other persons.
He also believes that Christ made a deal with devil to complete the atonement.
He also believes that "all of us are little gods running around on the earth." (a direct quote from TBN).
Others like Hagin et.al. believe the same doctrines.

I don't believe that Hinn is even saved.

 

[plain_n_simple]

I do not believe an apostle would carry the title, or tell you he was such if you encountered one. I doubt you would believe a miracle no matter how much documentation presented, even if it happened in front of you. It takes love.

 

[saturneptune]

There are numerous documented accounts of healing, miracles, and people being raised from the dead over the past year alone all over the world. It is love that drives these people.

Yes, Ernest Angsley and Robert Tilton are motivated by love, a love of money. I think the post mentioned that God does heal today if He chooses. It is between the Lord, the sick individual, with a local church and family praying for him or her. As mentioned above, the Lord does not need a carnival or side show to accomplish His will.

 

[plain_n_simple]

I am not speaking of Hinn, or Tilton or any of those, I'm talking real people that are not after fame or money, true love drives them, the love from God toward the sick. It's what Jesus did, and does through people today.

 

[DHK]

I do not believe an apostle would carry the title, or tell you he was such if you encountered one. I doubt you would believe a miracle no matter how much documentation presented, even if it happened in front of you. It takes love.

I already mentioned to you, I believe in healings.
I do believe that God answers prayers.
What I don't believe is the gifts of healing, or the gifts or miracles or tongues. There is a big difference.

How do you define an apostle?