Is there A Baptism In the holy Spirit For today?

[plain_n_simple]

"I am saying the pastor is the one in charge of the doctrine in the church. He is the undershepherd who answers directly to Chief Shepherd Jesus Christ for the spiritual condition of the church."

"This presupposes, of course, a set doctrinal statement that was decided by the church body, usually before the pastor ever got there."

First you said that the pastor is in charge of doctrine, and he answers directly to God.

Then you say that doctrine is set by the flock before the shepherd gets there.

So the church is telling the pastor what God wants them to hear from the pastor?

 

[Don]

First you said that the pastor is in charge of doctrine, and he answers directly to God.

Then you say that doctrine is set by the flock before the shepherd gets there.

So the church is telling the pastor what God wants them to hear from the pastor?

Quibbling.

If a pastor is called by an already existing church, that already-existing-church is expecting that pastor to agree and abide with it's already existing statement of beliefs and/or church constitution.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Quibbling.

If a pastor is called by an already existing church, that already-existing-church is expecting that pastor to agree and abide with it's already existing statement of beliefs and/or church constitution.

So the pastor is ruled by the church and not God. You cannot have it both ways. Either the pastor answers to God or the church.

 

[Don]

So the pastor is ruled by the church and not God. You cannot have it both ways. Either the pastor answers to God or the church.

Still quibbling. One would hope that the church statement of beliefs is based on God's Word, and that the pastor fully examined it before taking the job. In which case, the pastor is still answering to God. If it doesn't align with God's Word, and the pastor still took the job, well, then, that's a topic for a different thread.

 

[plain_n_simple]

The church is set up as a democratic institution. The followers elect a leader, and remove as needed. The sheep choose the shepherd. It is opposite of God's word. Quibble quibble lol.

 

[awaken]

Question?
THere remains parts of the world that do not know the gospel, right? How could the promise of Acts 1:8 be complete?

 

[DHK]

Question?
THere remains parts of the world that do not know the gospel, right? How could the promise of Acts 1:8 be complete?

By obeying the commands of our Lord.
Our Lord never gave a command to stay at home.

Here are some of the commands that he gave.
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Forsake all that you have, go into the neediest parts of the world, and there preach the gospel. The neediest parts of the world are usually Islamic nations which have little witness.
The application of Acts 1:8 is to be a witness to all the world. It is in conjunction with Mark 16:15 and Mat.28:19,20. It cannot be ignored. That obligation is yours as it is every Christian's.

 

[John of Japan]

NO, I answered your question! In that post that I quoted earlier in the thread! You sir are the one that never answered my question! YOu never corrected me in the fact that you knew the answer to my question.

As far as the baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues as evidence!
I have stated many times if not in this thread in others that tongues is not the only manifestation of the Holy Spirit! But the examples given in the scripture show that tongues were manifested each time. With the exception of Acts 19 where both tongues and prophecy were manifested. Even in Acts 8Something was manifested in order for Simeon to see!

Well, I give up. You obviously can't even read and understand what you yourself wrote.

 

[John of Japan]

First you said that the pastor is in charge of doctrine, and he answers directly to God.

Then you say that doctrine is set by the flock before the shepherd gets there.

So the church is telling the pastor what God wants them to hear from the pastor?

Huh? I said plainly what I meant. If you don't understand it, that's your problem.

Apparently then, in your version, the pastor can't preach what God leads him to, and he is in charge of no doctrine, but he must ask the deacons for permission for everything he preaches and teaches--or maybe pass out next week's sermon outlines to the people, and ask them to vote on whether he should preach this one or not. Ridiculous!

 

[plain_n_simple]

Huh? I said plainly what I meant. If you don't understand it, that's your problem.

Apparently then, in your version, the pastor can't preach what God leads him to, and he is in charge of no doctrine, but he must ask the deacons for permission for everything he preaches and teaches--or maybe pass out next week's sermon outlines to the people, and ask them to vote on whether he should preach this one or not. Ridiculous!

That's exactly what you were saying. First you say the pastor answers to God, then to the board. You contradict.

 

[John of Japan]

That's exactly what you were saying. First you say the pastor answers to God, then to the board. You contradict.

No, that is NOT what I said. The pastor does NOT answer to the board or the congregation for his doctrine. That does not mean he can ignore the church's constitution, including the doctrinal statement.

Here is what I said:

On how the church is run, on finances and so forth, you are right. But not on doctrine. I think I've given sufficient Scripture for that, and I could give a lot more. This presupposes, of course, a set doctrinal statement that was decided by the church body, usually before the pastor ever got there. The pastor is not allowed to teach contrary to the church's stated doctrine. (I agree that it is possible for the pastor himself to be a heretic.)But he has a responsibility from God to teach proper doctrine and protect from bad doctrine.

My point was that the pastor must follow the church doctrinal statement. I stand by that.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Okay, so where did they get the statement? What if God wants to correct them?

 

[plain_n_simple]

double post

 

[John of Japan]

Okay, so where did they get the statement? What if God wants to correct them?

The Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of leading and correcting the local church for which Christ died. Read Rev. 2-3. Christ watches over His churches carefully.

You must be a Baptist if you are on this thread. If so, you are supposed to believe in the autonomy of the local church. Do you? This doctrine means that no one--not a denomination, not a pope, not a visitor or other non-member--has the right to try to change the doctrine of a local church.

 

[plain_n_simple]

So how does the Spirit correct a church? Through the pastor, or the sheep?

 

[Don]

So how does the Spirit correct a church? Through the pastor, or the sheep?

Either. Or both. Depending on who and/or what needs correcting.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Suppose that a member lays hands on a girl in a wheelchair and prays. She gets up and walks. The church is not accustomed to laying hands on the sick, and do not believe that gifts are for today, but they keep happening. Should they change their thinking about gifts?

 

[awaken]

By obeying the commands of our Lord.
Our Lord never gave a command to stay at home.

Here are some of the commands that he gave.
Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Forsake all that you have, go into the neediest parts of the world, and there preach the gospel. The neediest parts of the world are usually Islamic nations which have little witness.
The application of Acts 1:8 is to be a witness to all the world. It is in conjunction with Mark 16:15 and Mat.28:19,20. It cannot be ignored. That obligation is yours as it is every Christian's.

Verse 8 speaks of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit...

 

[awaken]

Question: Why does Heb. 6:2 mention "doctrine of baptisms"..plural?

 

[DHK]

Verse 8 speaks of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit...

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

He doesn't say it to you. Jesus is saying this to his disciples, the very ones that he just told to wait at Jerusalem.

Wait at Jerusalem and you shall receive power. After that the Holy Spirit shall come you. And then you shall be my witnesses...

The command is to wait at Jerusalem until the Day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would come. The first part of Acts 1:8 has nothing to do with you, unless you have a time machine and can take yourself back 2,000 years in time.