The text of interest spans verse 1 and verse 2 and reads: Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and (Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
Notice this not say we are saved by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, but rather we are chosen by being sanctified, i.e. set apart in Christ.
The word translated "by" is "en." This is not a word signifying movement as the KJV might imply by using the word "through." But, is usually a word that would indicate a specific event (not the process) being applied. The sanctification (set apart) follows the election and the choosing.
This agedman's rough translation work of the verse:
...According to the foreknowing of God, He has selected (chosen, elected), set (the chosen, elected) apart (sanctified), and purified (sprinkled with Jesus Christ's blood).
If it is not accurate, I am sure there are highly schooled Greek scholars following this thread that will correct my ineptitude.
If your view was correct the choice was before creation, then you seem to be saying God had foreseen knowledge of who would be created and according to this foreknowledge He chose who He did. This is simply adding to scripture what is no where in the text.
This is as the Scriptures definitively do teach, and I exampled in the last post. These were given specific information about their future child that wasn't even conceived: Abraham, Zacharias, Mary, Samson's parents
The word foreknowledge as used in the Bible means knowledge of something from the past being used in the present, i.e God chose them according to His plan formulated before creation. This is a case where Calvinism must redefine the meaning of the word. Why can you not see the same thing?
Foreknowledge isn't just having experienced historical knowledge that "this" was what happened in the past when I put my hand in the boiling water, therefore, .....
Foreknowledge by man must be experiential based - a learning process of extrapolating possible results given a set of variables applied to a situation.
But with God there is no experiential based learning. God's foreknowing is complete from the beginning of time.
Consider a grocery store illustration.
God did not formulate a plan and then make a final selection of the many available oranges when he arrived in the produce section of the store. God already knew exactly which orange of the many oranges displayed in the produce He would select before the store was even created. Not only that but he foreknew and selected the seed that was planted that would grow the tree, the blossom, the specific bee to pollinate, the specific orange of the many oranges in the store. Not only that but He planned the and selected the soil ... and on it goes
Both verses plainly ...
As I expected this in your eyes refers to salvation but election based on faith in the truth is in view. Both verses say we are chosen by being set apart. Salvation is not even mentioned in the 1 Peter 1:1-2 passage.
I disagree. Salvation is if not mentioned most certainly inferred by Peter merely having addressed the believers as "strangers" (pilgrims, foreigners) in the opening lines of verse 1. He certainly wasn't addressing heathens.
While true, this has nothing to do with our verse. What our verse says is one cannot be chosen and not be sanctified or set apart because that is how we are chosen.
I think your using reasoning that isn't quite correct.
Sanctification is not the choosing. The choosing brings the sanctification.
From our view, the produce is real, sitting on the shelf, and in the "now" of our lives and living we have only experiential knowledge to draw from to make a selection.
But from God's view, the store hasn't even been created, and He knows exactly what orange, chooses that orange, and sets that orange aside for His good purpose. That is an example of election, sanctification, and purification of the verses.
I agree it is consistent with scripture for God to have foreknowledge, which is to say God makes plans and when He causes them to occur or brings them about, it is by the foreknowledge of God.
Your next statement is obscure, "make choices before the foundation of the world" is clear, but "make choices in Christ before the foundation of the world" adds confusion. What is the difference between the two quoted statements that you were trying to articulate?
"Chosen in Him before the foundations of the world..." Ephesians
No one mentioned that God's foreknowledge hinges on our faith. But if God's plan was to choose believers in Him, then by His foreknowledge, He would set apart those with faith in the truth.
He does set the believers apart.
Did not Christ do that very work with the Apostles?
Here is a bit of the picture of the "foreknowing" work of God.
Christ selected (elected,chose) the disciples, He set them apart (sanctified), He died on the cross (sprinkled the blood), and then, after all that, they finally got the Holy Spirit.
You are changing the subject from 2 Thessalonians 2:13 to an assertion about God. Please stick to the topic and do not run away from it.
Why would you try to assume I am "running away" and not sticking to the topic?
I was demonstrating how God has intimate foreknowledge of the yet to be conceived. It was done to prove that such foreknowing was not just some plan that God would work out as some construction time line. But that He had the building built and new each occupiers intimate secrets before the ground was even selected for the building.
My statement is totally consistent with all of God's prophecies of Christ.
If what you are showing is your thinking, then I would not be in agreement about the consistency - other than it is watery.
