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Is there any true fundamentalist on this board
- Thread starter Brad14
- Start date
I am a true fundamentalist and independent Baptist. My view of Bible translation is the same view as that held by the early English
translators such as William Tyndale, the translators of the Geneva Bible, and even the KJV translators. Those early English translators disagreed with and refuted the one-perfect-translation-only theory of their day [the Latin Vulgate-only view]. A consistent and scriptural view of Bible translation would be true both before and after 1611 and would be true for believers who speak other languages than English as well as for English-speaking believers.
Brad14, do you accept other English translations from the same traditional Hebrew and Greek texts that the KJV was translated from such as Tyndale's, the 1560 Geneva Bible, the 1833 revision of the KJV by Noah Webster, the 1842 revision of the KJV by Bible-believing Baptists,
the 1982 NKJV, 1987 Literal Translation by Jay Green, the 1990 Modern KJV, the 1994 21st Century KJV, the 1998 Third Millennium Bible, or the 2000 King James 2000 Version?
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Michelle,
What are you going to do when you get to heaven someday, (if you go to heaven someday), and all the rest of us are there?
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Paul, I KNOW I am going to Heaven, as the Lord has left me no doubt whatsoever. Why do you seem to be in doubt of it? Secondly, I am told to love my brothers and sisters. Keeping silent on these issues is not loving them. Compromising with these things is not loving them. Are you loving your brothers and sisters at all costs? Or are you compromising with them or keeping quiet for sake of peace? Those that do this, are doing the bidding of the devil.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle,
What are you going to do when you get to heaven someday, (if you go to heaven someday), and all the rest of us are there?
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Paul, I KNOW I am going to Heaven, as the Lord has left me no doubt whatsoever. Why do you seem to be in doubt of it? Secondly, I am told to love my brothers and sisters. Keeping silent on these issues is not loving them. Compromising with these things is not loving them. Are you loving your brothers and sisters at all costs? Or are you compromising with them or keeping quiet for sake of peace? Those that do this, are doing the bidding of the devil.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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What if I said God has showed me that it is godly? What if I said that God has showed me that people who judge others based on musical preferences have planks in their eyes?
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I am not personally judging anyone regarding this. I am judging spiritual things affecting the churches with spiritual. You all however, seem to be the one's in judgement of me for sharing it.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
What if I said God has showed me that it is godly? What if I said that God has showed me that people who judge others based on musical preferences have planks in their eyes?
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I am not personally judging anyone regarding this. I am judging spiritual things affecting the churches with spiritual. You all however, seem to be the one's in judgement of me for sharing it.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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As far as the Bible goes, well, I do NOT understand why you think a Bible translation and music go hand-in-hand; with the exception that neither are defined in the scriptures in details. We know that David sang and danced quite dramatically, with a full orchestration.
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Because the two seem to go hand in hand with one another. All these things I listed, are found in all churches that are liberal. Ecspecially the choice of Bible versions. Where there is a modern version/s being used, you will almost always find the music is modern ccm type of music, to which also are involved with Promise Keepers and/or the Rick Warren purpose driven churches. They have brought the world, and the ways of the world INTO the churches. The worlds marketing strategies, music, dress, ideals, pyschology, etc. Jesus said, a little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump of dough. We see this happening right before our very eyes, in an ever increasing manner. It is not getting better folks, but worse.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
As far as the Bible goes, well, I do NOT understand why you think a Bible translation and music go hand-in-hand; with the exception that neither are defined in the scriptures in details. We know that David sang and danced quite dramatically, with a full orchestration.
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Because the two seem to go hand in hand with one another. All these things I listed, are found in all churches that are liberal. Ecspecially the choice of Bible versions. Where there is a modern version/s being used, you will almost always find the music is modern ccm type of music, to which also are involved with Promise Keepers and/or the Rick Warren purpose driven churches. They have brought the world, and the ways of the world INTO the churches. The worlds marketing strategies, music, dress, ideals, pyschology, etc. Jesus said, a little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump of dough. We see this happening right before our very eyes, in an ever increasing manner. It is not getting better folks, but worse.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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I'm being facetious, Michelle. But I hold to historic fundamentalism. All of this nitpicking is not of God, but rather the evil one who loves for us to be contentious!
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I am sorry, but this is not "nitpicking", but very serious within the churches today. Please go read the links I provided, and buy the books I suggested, so that you may see for yourself the implications of this. The churches today are being seduced by Satan, and they are falling for it. You must first see it, then ask yourself why and how. God does not warn us about things, and the times to come for absolutely no reason. He tells us to be on the watch and sober. To be as wise as serpents, but as harmless as doves. Are you obeying your Lord in this regard? (Just asking a question, not accusing)
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
I'm being facetious, Michelle. But I hold to historic fundamentalism. All of this nitpicking is not of God, but rather the evil one who loves for us to be contentious!
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I am sorry, but this is not "nitpicking", but very serious within the churches today. Please go read the links I provided, and buy the books I suggested, so that you may see for yourself the implications of this. The churches today are being seduced by Satan, and they are falling for it. You must first see it, then ask yourself why and how. God does not warn us about things, and the times to come for absolutely no reason. He tells us to be on the watch and sober. To be as wise as serpents, but as harmless as doves. Are you obeying your Lord in this regard? (Just asking a question, not accusing)
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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You let yourself lose a friend over something extrabiblical?
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It wasn't my choice. It apparently was his, because I didn't buy into (believe) his excuses for the music he listened to. I never judged him on what he listened to nor did I preach to him on it. He was the one who always brought it up and I told him it was probably best we didn't talk about that issue. I told him my thoughts about the music he listened to, and music in general, according to the music itself, and God's truth in the scriptures. He must not have liked my belief, as he ended our friendship. This was all his choice.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
You let yourself lose a friend over something extrabiblical?
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It wasn't my choice. It apparently was his, because I didn't buy into (believe) his excuses for the music he listened to. I never judged him on what he listened to nor did I preach to him on it. He was the one who always brought it up and I told him it was probably best we didn't talk about that issue. I told him my thoughts about the music he listened to, and music in general, according to the music itself, and God's truth in the scriptures. He must not have liked my belief, as he ended our friendship. This was all his choice.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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Then your claims that you have the Bible as your only rule of faith and practice are false. You are expecting other people to abide by a rule that can't be found in the Bible. You are making what Michelle believes the Holy Spirit showed her--even if there is no clear statement in scripture of it--the absolute rule of faith and practice.
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I didn't come up with this on my own. We are to prove all things. It is the scriptures that I judge everything by and live my life accordingly to as best as I can. This was one of them:
Matthew 7
13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Then your claims that you have the Bible as your only rule of faith and practice are false. You are expecting other people to abide by a rule that can't be found in the Bible. You are making what Michelle believes the Holy Spirit showed her--even if there is no clear statement in scripture of it--the absolute rule of faith and practice.
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I didn't come up with this on my own. We are to prove all things. It is the scriptures that I judge everything by and live my life accordingly to as best as I can. This was one of them:
Matthew 7
13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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All sacred music was CCM at one time.
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NO it wasn't. Sacred music is just that sacred, and has no part with the things or ways of the world. I highly recommend you do some research concerning CCM, the musicians involved, and also the music style and the roots therof, before you claim I am wrong. You can listen to what you will. It is your choice. I have shared my belief with you, and warned you. I have done my part, for love of you. Yet you all desire to take personal offense as if I am judging you personally. All I have to say, is try to read my posts without bias, and then grow up.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
All sacred music was CCM at one time.
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NO it wasn't. Sacred music is just that sacred, and has no part with the things or ways of the world. I highly recommend you do some research concerning CCM, the musicians involved, and also the music style and the roots therof, before you claim I am wrong. You can listen to what you will. It is your choice. I have shared my belief with you, and warned you. I have done my part, for love of you. Yet you all desire to take personal offense as if I am judging you personally. All I have to say, is try to read my posts without bias, and then grow up.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
Michelle, the scripture tells us everything we need to be thoroughly furnished. If we need to do it, the scriptural statements will be there. God tells us in writing everything we need to know and do in order to be perfect.
"Touch not, taste not, handle not" are ordinances of men, and those who have died with Christ to the rudimentary things of the world learn not to subject themselves to commandments that God didn't give us in writing. They begin to understand that what seems to us to be wise restrictions are really the promotion of "self-made religion". They make us feel like we're doing something good, but we are fooling ourselves: what we in false humility think is suppressing the flesh is really indulging it.
That's what legalistic rules do: they appeal to our fleshiness. They make us feel that by making rules and keeping ourselves from certain things we will be becoming more holy--more spiritual--but we are really just being more fleshy than ever.
Love God, keep his commandments, and don't add to them.
Those in the year 1000 would have disagreed with you. They believed no music was of God and that all music was of the devil.
All you have to do is to open the page in the dictionary to the word contemporary and read what it says.
Now what does contemporary mean?
Perhaps if you were not so indifferent you might be able to learn that Isaac Watts was accused of the same exact things you accuse the contemporary music of today. Ever listen to any hymns by Isaac Watts. If so then you are a liberal and of tghe devil according to those who criticized Isaac Watts.
CCM in the year 1000 meant no music at all. They would have called you an exteme liberal to even consider having any music at all.
So which liberal side do you stand on?
I guess we should remember that the revelation some particular person gets from God is no where else to be found. After all we are not spiritual enough to know anything. We must be taught it by someone who is the only person who has a direct hotline to God.
Somehow the Holy Spirit only chooses to reside in one person so they can teach the rest.
Somehow the Holy Spirit only chooses to reside in one person so they can teach the rest.
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I guess we should remember that the revelation some particular person gets from God is no where else to be found. After all we are not spiritual enough to know anything. We must be taught it by someone who is the only person who has a direct hotline to God.
Somehow the Holy Spirit only chooses to reside in one person so they can teach the rest.
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No, I have applied scriptural truth to this issue and my belief comes from those scriptural truths. CCM music of today shows forth bad fruits. We are to prove all things. We are not to blindly accept everything that comes our way saying or looking as though it is christian. Those who do this, and do not test all things to what God has said and commanded, are not obeying the Lord and using their own judgement and reasoning outside of God's truth. They are also asking to be decieved, and therefore decieve others. Has anyone of you who are here condoning the CCM proved it to be godly? Has anyone of you personally applied scriptural truths to this? I do not think you have. As long as someone says they are christian, it is accepted. As long as something seems christian, it is accepted. As long as something claims it is christian, it is accepted. All without testing these things against scriptural truth. This is what I am witnessing of many of you on these boards. You are putting yourselves into very dangerous postions. Jesus said: If the blind lead the blind, they BOTH fall into the ditch.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
I guess we should remember that the revelation some particular person gets from God is no where else to be found. After all we are not spiritual enough to know anything. We must be taught it by someone who is the only person who has a direct hotline to God.
Somehow the Holy Spirit only chooses to reside in one person so they can teach the rest.
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No, I have applied scriptural truth to this issue and my belief comes from those scriptural truths. CCM music of today shows forth bad fruits. We are to prove all things. We are not to blindly accept everything that comes our way saying or looking as though it is christian. Those who do this, and do not test all things to what God has said and commanded, are not obeying the Lord and using their own judgement and reasoning outside of God's truth. They are also asking to be decieved, and therefore decieve others. Has anyone of you who are here condoning the CCM proved it to be godly? Has anyone of you personally applied scriptural truths to this? I do not think you have. As long as someone says they are christian, it is accepted. As long as something seems christian, it is accepted. As long as something claims it is christian, it is accepted. All without testing these things against scriptural truth. This is what I am witnessing of many of you on these boards. You are putting yourselves into very dangerous postions. Jesus said: If the blind lead the blind, they BOTH fall into the ditch.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
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KJV Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
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They are not true peacemakers if they COMPROMISE the truth.
The peacemakers being spoken of are those who bring the gospel truth to others. Jesus Christ is true peace, and it is speaking of those who bring Jesus Christ to others. This verse has NOTHING to do with compromising TRUTH for sake of peace.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
KJV Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
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They are not true peacemakers if they COMPROMISE the truth.
The peacemakers being spoken of are those who bring the gospel truth to others. Jesus Christ is true peace, and it is speaking of those who bring Jesus Christ to others. This verse has NOTHING to do with compromising TRUTH for sake of peace.
love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle
I may have missed it but what scriptural truth have you applied?
Your statement seems to indicate all
I seriously doubt you have examined all of the CCM out there.
Ever listened to:
In Christ Alone
Holy Is The Lord
Be Lifted Up
IF CCM of today is so bad why is 14 year old daughter speaking to others about Christ. Why has she engaged in debates in class about things like abortionand other moral issues? Why does she know her Bible well? Why does she read it regularly? Why does she share with my wife and me about how people need to know Christ? While most adults seldom share their faith, my daughter is regularly sharing with her peers. Why?
Apparently you have not listened to any great CCM music of today
Just remember it was Isaac Watts who was severely criticized by the church for bringing in his version of CCM in that day. People began coming to church because of that tool. I am certain you sing a number of the songs he wrote.
It's much like the old saying, "You will find what you are looking for."
When I was pastoring I saw grandkids who started coming to church because of the service we started. We had two very distinct services. One was the traditional hymns and the other mostly CCM. The youth group doubled in size while the church more than doubled. Interestingly it was many of the older generation who were not sure but began coming to the service with the young people. Parents of those young people started coming.
Sometime listen to the three songs I listed above and tell me what you think of the doctrine in them.
Psalm 150, "Praise the Lord! Praise God in His sanctuary; Praise Him in His mighty expanse. Praise Him for His mighty deeds; Praise Him according to His excellent greatness. Praise Him with trumpet sound; Praise Him with harp and lyre. Praise Him with timbrel and dancing; Praise Him with stringed instruments and pipe. Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with resounding cymbals. Let everything that has breath praise the Lord. Praise the Lord!"
1 Chr. 15:16, "Then David spoke to the chiefs of the Levites to appoint their relatives the singers, with instruments of music, harps, lyres, loud-sounding cymbals, to raise sounds of joy."
1 Chr. 15:28, "Thus all Israel brought up the ark of the covenant of the Lord with shouting, and with sound of the horn, with trumpets, with loud-sounding cymbals, with harps and lyres."
Michelle, the difference between music and KJVO is that music is mentioned in Scripture as both entertainment AND a part of worship...while KJVO or anything similar isn't mentioned at all.
Do you think David was born knowing how to play a harp, sing, or dance? I'm sure that in his early life as a shepherd he had hours in which to practice his music(the sheep apparently didn't mind) as well as his skill with a sling and other weapons. In his later years he WROTE quite a bit of music. The very word PSALM means the twanging of a harp or the playing of a stringed instrument(Greek 'psalmos') and the Psalms were ORIGINALLY written as SONGS.
God caused David to write certain songs drawn from the knowledge and revelations He'd given David(Jesus called David a PROPHET) and chose them as Scripture. However, there's NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of anything even remotely close to the KJVO myth in Scripture. The notion that modern Bibles and CCM cause a church to become corrupt is as absurd as saying the KJV caused Koresh, Jones, etc. to become what they were. MVs and CCM are neither cause nor effect of a church's going down the tubes.
Do you think David was born knowing how to play a harp, sing, or dance? I'm sure that in his early life as a shepherd he had hours in which to practice his music(the sheep apparently didn't mind) as well as his skill with a sling and other weapons. In his later years he WROTE quite a bit of music. The very word PSALM means the twanging of a harp or the playing of a stringed instrument(Greek 'psalmos') and the Psalms were ORIGINALLY written as SONGS.
God caused David to write certain songs drawn from the knowledge and revelations He'd given David(Jesus called David a PROPHET) and chose them as Scripture. However, there's NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of anything even remotely close to the KJVO myth in Scripture. The notion that modern Bibles and CCM cause a church to become corrupt is as absurd as saying the KJV caused Koresh, Jones, etc. to become what they were. MVs and CCM are neither cause nor effect of a church's going down the tubes.
Michelle:What do you suppose Jesus Christ our Lord is referring to in verses 16 and 18?
A church in the ancient city of Laodicea.
Why do you suppose these warnings and encouragements are given in the Book of Revelation?
Because JESUS told John to write them, and because He chose to preserve them as Scripture.
Do you suppose that there are people in churches such as these, living in all ages from the time of the first churches until the last?
But of course. There HAVE BEEN such, from John's day onward. That's why the "Church Age" doctrine which assigns successive time periods to the types of each of the 7 churches is false.
There are definately Laodiacean type christians in the churches in these days, and most definately churches of this nature. One thing to look at, is Jesus Christ will "spew them out of his mouth". Then verse 18 says they will be tried by fire. I think this is very good indication of the church, just prior to the tribulation period, of God's wrath upon this earth, PRIOR to his return. This passage is telling us the church is a COMPROMISER which we see ever so increasing among the churches of THIS GENERATION, than ever before.
Problem with your premise is there have been churches of this type since Christianity began. They are NOT unique to THIS time.
I believe you need to read about this false doctrine for yourself, Michelle. It says there have been specific "church ages" throughout history since Jesus gave the Revelation. This is simply false, as the ACTUAL course of history clearly reveals. The true Fundamentalist believes there are types of all seven of these churches in existence now, and that there have been all these types since the days of John...as well as subtypes within the seven categories. The "Church Age" doctrine is a bummer, invented by man. Here's a site to fill you in:
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/7chindx.htm#An Exposition of the Seven Church Ages
So you see, the inventors of this doctrine ADDED to God's word. jesus told John to send letters to SEVEN SPECIFIC CHURCHES, & told him what to write to each of them. NOWHERE does He mention any carryover into later ages. Although it's true there ARE types of all these churches today, it's simply NOT SCRIPTURAL to assign periods of history to each of them. Please read the Scriptures you posted CLOSELY and if you find any mention of any carryover into Church Ages, please point it out.
This once again bears out the fact that a person imbedded in one false doctrine is prey to others. You're up to your neck in the KJVO myth and now you're expressing another equally-false doctrine...CHURCH AGE. False begets false.
A church in the ancient city of Laodicea.
Why do you suppose these warnings and encouragements are given in the Book of Revelation?
Because JESUS told John to write them, and because He chose to preserve them as Scripture.
Do you suppose that there are people in churches such as these, living in all ages from the time of the first churches until the last?
But of course. There HAVE BEEN such, from John's day onward. That's why the "Church Age" doctrine which assigns successive time periods to the types of each of the 7 churches is false.
There are definately Laodiacean type christians in the churches in these days, and most definately churches of this nature. One thing to look at, is Jesus Christ will "spew them out of his mouth". Then verse 18 says they will be tried by fire. I think this is very good indication of the church, just prior to the tribulation period, of God's wrath upon this earth, PRIOR to his return. This passage is telling us the church is a COMPROMISER which we see ever so increasing among the churches of THIS GENERATION, than ever before.
Problem with your premise is there have been churches of this type since Christianity began. They are NOT unique to THIS time.
I believe you need to read about this false doctrine for yourself, Michelle. It says there have been specific "church ages" throughout history since Jesus gave the Revelation. This is simply false, as the ACTUAL course of history clearly reveals. The true Fundamentalist believes there are types of all seven of these churches in existence now, and that there have been all these types since the days of John...as well as subtypes within the seven categories. The "Church Age" doctrine is a bummer, invented by man. Here's a site to fill you in:
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/7chindx.htm#An Exposition of the Seven Church Ages
So you see, the inventors of this doctrine ADDED to God's word. jesus told John to send letters to SEVEN SPECIFIC CHURCHES, & told him what to write to each of them. NOWHERE does He mention any carryover into later ages. Although it's true there ARE types of all these churches today, it's simply NOT SCRIPTURAL to assign periods of history to each of them. Please read the Scriptures you posted CLOSELY and if you find any mention of any carryover into Church Ages, please point it out.
This once again bears out the fact that a person imbedded in one false doctrine is prey to others. You're up to your neck in the KJVO myth and now you're expressing another equally-false doctrine...CHURCH AGE. False begets false.