Is there any true fundamentalist on this board

[Phillip]

Originally posted by Soulman:
WOW!! JUST LIKE WORLDLY MUSIC!

Just like about one-third of the hymns we sang in the 60's from the late 1800's early 1900's---English Pub tunes with Christian Lyrics.

Has your church ever sang our national anthem by Francis Scott Key? If it has, it has sung a "bar room DRINKING song" with new lyrics.

Yep! JUST LIKE WORLDLY MUSIC!

 

[Soulman]

Philip, If you actually read my comments you would see that I have stated numerous times that not all CCM is bad!. I simply beleive that there are alot of people filling their auditoriums with CCM bands playing nothing more than rock music. Also there should be a distinction between us and Charasmatics and pentacostals.

You compare I Have Decided to Follow Jesus with CCM. I am not saying that you are not to feel good when you sing to Christ. Is it the music you are after or the words?

I will say this again as you will probably see we are closer on this issue than you think.

There is some very good CCM music that definately has a place in the church. Rock & Roll and Heavy metal styles DO NOT!!

 

[Soulman]

Oh by the way. Our National Anthem is just that. Our National Anthem. We sing it in support of our great land. It is not a Christian Hymn. Where our music gets it's roots may simply show our consistant wicked nature. Does it mean that if we did something wrong once that it is a license to do worse now? Or to keep doing it period? Shouldn't we look at the origin of our music and change the way we allow it into our churches or simply choose not to learn from past sin?

 

[untangled]

Amen GB and Amen Phillip..

 

[Bro. James]

What defines a "True Fundamentalist"?

Spend a few days with the Amish. They are probably pretty close to having a fundamental paradigm.

The remainder of the "Christian" world has pretty much gone the way of Baal--pagan idolatry.

We think we can worship God in our flesh--and more probably know not the difference.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Phillip]

Uh, I think if you would study history someone just might find that the dancing and singing done by the Israelites and David was quite emotional and quite dramatic. Probably put the Amish to shame.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying the Amish are not very worshipful. Everything is "relative".

Music makes people feel good period. On Sunday nights at fifth Sunday singing (to show you how fundamental my church is), the old people will almost go into a comma with hymns from the Heavenly Highway. Where in scripture does it say that we are NOT to feel good with music?

God gave us emotions. He gave us music. If we enjoy music and enjoy it even more because we are praising Him -- what is wrong with that?

Now, here is where people go off of the deep end. I'm not talking about typical pentecostal style services, but just because music is contemporary and just because we enjoy it is irrelevant to fundamentalism.

I listened to a song on our radio station on the way to the office this morning....don't know the name, but if you have heard any modern music you have heard it. A girl singing with a beautiful voice. "I'm the cause of all His pain, the day He wore my crown........". Laid back, beautiful and modern. Most people have a tear in their eye before its finished. Listen to the words.....Now, what caused that emotion? The words alone? or a combination of the words and music? Soulman, its BOTH. God gave us those emotions and sometimes the music helps sets the stage for feeling close to Christ. Otherwise, why would he tell us to SING praises to Him. If it wasn't the music, then we might as well just read the words to out loud.

When I was a young boy, I did the audio for Gene Bartlette when he visited our church camps. His music was considered RADICAL. Now, its been in the hymn books for over 30 years. (Set My Soul Afire Lord.) etc.

I agree with you that sinful music is being used in some services, but that is the fault of the church and its directors; it certainly does not mean that a church singing newer music than an 1800 hymn is corrupt. It is all about being careful WHAT you bring in. If it is heavy metal and obviously rock and roll, then you would be stupid to use it, but to label all CCM bad before you have even listened to it is wrong.

Don't you think that the Holy Spirit touches our emotions when He convicts us? Why do you think most convicted people who walk the isle are crying? Does this make emotions bad? Only if that is ALL we rely on like some of the pentecostal groups.

 

[gb93433]

I wonder what some of the churches would do if they actually applied Psalm 150? Somebody might have to wake up form their timed late Sunday morning sleep.

Someone might assume somebody is actually alive in that building instead of thinking it to be a morgue with the undertaker leading the procession in and out.

 

[Soulman]

Posted by Phillip: "I agree with you that sinful music is being used in some services, but that is the fault of the church and its directors;it certainly does not mean that a church singing newer music than an 1800 hymn is corrupt."

I agree with you 100% on this one Phillip.

Posted by Phillip: If it is heavy metal and obviously rock and roll, then you would be stupid to use it,"

Isn't that what I have been saying?

Posted by Phillip: "but to label all CCM bad before you have even listened to it is wrong."

I agree. I have said at the onset that SOME CCM has a place in the Church. We obviously have to listen to it to judge it.

As far as old people going into a coma listening to old hymns, I think you are a little dramatic. They enjoy them as much as anyone enjoys music. I am in a church where we sing time honored traditional hymns as well as certain CCM for special music etc. I don't allow my 13 yr old daughter to listen to rock or heavy metal. You know what? She loves what she is allowd to listen to.

If it is Godly, it is good

 

[superdave]

I think this site has been infiltrated with a liberal branch of fundamentalisim. I have been a fundamentalist all my life and networked with hundreds of people and message boards. The folks posting on this thread are a different breed. On other threads they would not be considered anything other than compromisers. When Churches get into trouble , you can always spot it. The music standards are the first to go. CCM is entertainment, not edification.

Unfortunately for us "liberals" there lately has been an influx of gnostic heretics over the past little while who insist on teachings that are extra-biblical in most cases, and unbiblical in others. CCM has nothing to do with the decline of the modern church (which I don't agree is happening at least not in my church) it is much more about moving from relationship to ritual, and the abandoment of teaching the Word, to teaching stuff you made up that might sound like it came from the Word.

Psalm 33:1-3
"Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous: for praise is comely for the upright. Praise the Lord with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise."

Looks like I am going to have to play with 5/6ths of a 12 string guitar from now on. Which 2 do I need to remove?

Music that is doctrinally correct, played in a way that is reverent to God, and is done for his honor and Glory, is good and right. All other music is worth little. Including hymns, CCM, or what have you. It not about labels. I have found much good music that is contemporary in its authorship, and much bad theology in some hymnals. And vice versa, you have to have great discernment, especially when choosing music for a worship service.

 

[Exile]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I can only comment that I firmly believe in the authority and inerrancy of Scripture, and in all it teaches, which would probably qualify me as a fundamentalist in the strictest sense. However, when it comes to man-made rules concerning music, clothing, food and drink, Bible versions, etc., I don't feel compelled to conform. So, in that sense, I guess I'm not a Fundamentalist. What importance is there in the word itself, anyway?

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by Soulman:
If it is Godly, it is good

I would have to say that we agree pretty much down the line. It is nice to be in synch with a brother.

 

[superdave]

I haven't read the whole thread, so I can only comment that I firmly believe in the authority and inerrancy of Scripture, and in all it teaches, which would probably qualify me as a fundamentalist in the strictest sense.

Amen, that IS a fundamentalist, no matter what some would like to add to that belief.

I consider myself to be a fundamentalist because of my belief in the exact truth you are describing, and nothing else is operable in the application of the term.

an IFB if you will, despite the fact that I denouce many of the teachings that are part of the connotative definition of the term IFB conjured up in some circles.

 

[michelle]

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I have mentioned about the people who were coming to the contemporary service now I would like your criticism of the worldliness in what you read?
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CCM music is worldly. The Holy Spirit who saves and leads people are not. That is wonderful about your church, but it does not mean that CCM music is not worldly, it just shows that the Holy Spirit is still convicting many to repentance. CCM music however is worldly, and it's roots are worldly. This might eventually damage many, or many might have false conversions that you have never thought of or that you know of. What are you showing the world? That this is okay to look like, sound like, act like the world? Are people being convicted of their sins and the sins of the world? Or are they rather being taught the opposite? Church growth and looking at numbers does not mean a thing. It is how many are showing forth obediance to the word of God after salvation. New creatures in Christ, leaving behind the old man, and beginning the new, including how we live, think, behave, look, which also affects our witness to the world. I have found the opposite of what you have testified. I find that many, even in this very country are hardened in heart to the gospel of Jesus Christ. Many know about him, but many continue to reject him and outright blasphemy him. I fear many churches today are luring in the world, with the means of the world, and true conversions are not happening as a result.


And to you Trotter, those scriptures are very relevent to this issue. Please meditate upon them, and the Lord will show you.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Liz Ward]

Originally posted by michelle:

CCM music is worldly.

Genuine question:

Why?

Now don't misunderstand me. I loathe a lot of it. But much of the time, I don't have any valid reason to loathe it. It's just too low, too slow, too boring .... and none of those are relevant really.

Liz

 

[Johnv]

Liz, you won't get a firm scriptural response. You'll only get the same response I get when I ask why the KJV is the "only" word of God: "Uhhhh, I dunno, it just is".

 

[Charles Meadows]

"CCM music is worldly. The Holy Spirit who saves and leads people are not."

Pianos and organs are worldly too Michelle.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by michelle:


CCM music is worldly.

Apparently you haven’t been to very many good young people’s groups. What would you say about those young people who sing passages of scripture? Those same people are leading people to Christ, discipling others, leading others in Bible study, and teaching others to share their faith. Out of those same people come missionaries. Out of that same group com pastors. I was in that same organization when I was in college. Out of that group comes nearly 100 percent of the people who know how to disciple others. Many of those are leaders in churches today and raising children who are living for Christ.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:


Pianos and organs are worldly too Michelle.

So are the disobedient who do not make disciples.

 

[BibleMaMa]

BRAD,

I also am a true blue fundamentalist. I am KJV only and stand firm on that belief. I know exactly what you are talking about the Evangelical and Laodicean Church. Strong words but I can see where you get that from.

Welcome!

 

[Liz Ward]

So no-one knows what is wrong with modern Christian music (in itself, I mean, I'm not talking about songs with obvious doctrinal problems, and anyway there are plenty of hymns with those too), yet many are condemning it out of hand.

Can't you give me a better reason than that? I'd like some REASON to hate it!!!

Liz