Is There Such A Thing As A Just War?

[Marcia]

I don't believe that soldiers have a Christian right to kill the enemy and innocent people in an unjust war.

So if the war is unjust, according to you, then the Christian soldiers are murderers. I doubt they are purposefully killing "innocent people." People do die in war and unfortunately, it includes civilians.

But in a just war, then they are not murderers?

We're back to square one, JustChristian, in that there are no clear definitions or authorities to define a just war.

So I ask: how can you call believers murderers based on your view of whether a war is just or not? Because that is what it boils down to based on what you've said.

 

[Andy T.]

I don't think you understand. I'm saying that Christ's church should not endorse political parties or candidates.

I'm not aware of Christ's Church endorsing political candidates. However, I've noticed that a handful of congregations will do this, and at least half of them (if not more) are liberal ones that endorse Democratic candidates.

If you treat Democrats in your church or who are potential converts the way you do on the BB that distances half of this country from your church.

Oh man, the irony just slaps you in the face. I could easily replace Dems with Repubs in your sentence and apply it back to you. And, I believe the record shows that your disdain of your political opponents comes through quite clear - e.g., calling our soldiers murderers and the like. The hypocrisy has become tiresome.

 

[Jim1999]

A lot of soldiers have been killed or wounded because they hesitated to shoot and ask questions later.......War is hell,,,,,,,,no question about it. When in Korea, I wanted to be back home sipping tea.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[JustChristian]

I'm not aware of Christ's Church endorsing political candidates. However, I've noticed that a handful of congregations will do this, and at least half of them (if not more) are liberal ones that endorse Democratic candidates.


Oh man, the irony just slaps you in the face. I could easily replace Dems with Repubs in your sentence and apply it back to you. And, I believe the record shows that your disdain of your political opponents comes through quite clear - e.g., calling our soldiers murderers and the like. The hypocrisy has become tiresome.

Do you treat Democrats this way in your every day life?

 

[Andy T.]

Do you treat Democrats this way in your every day life?

Do you likewise treat Republicans this way in your every day life? Do you tell your Republican friends who have sons fighting in Iraq that they are murderers? Do you tell your Repub friends who do not support a welfare state that they are violating Matthew 25 like you've done on here? Do you tell people who voted for McCain or Bush that they didn't vote as Jesus would, because Jesus obviously would be against the war and wants everyone to have health care via the force of the gov't?

 

[thegospelgeek]

Notice how JC consistently skips my question? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Martin Luther]

Since the Alzheimer's thread was somewhat derailed by the topic of a just war, I thought it should have its own thread.

So, is there such a thing as a just war?

If so, who determines it and what standard is used?

If Christians fight in a war because they believe it is just, or because they believe they should fight for whatever reason, why are they wrong just because others think it is unjust?

The only valid argument I can see against war is pacificsm. It is the only consistent position if one opposes war, imo.

The determination of whether a war is just or unjust is too ambiguous.

God does not give you a free pass to kill because the government said you can. No Christian should ever fight in any war. You only have the right to protect you and your family. The war for independence was born out of spirit of rebellion, this is not godly.

 

[JustChristian]

Notice how JC consistently skips my question? :smilewinkgrin:

Not the case. I answered it in a response to another post.

Originally Posted by JustChristian
Ah, but I have NEVER suggested that politics and religion be combined. That's the key point.

Can they be separate?

Can we separate ANY aspect of our lives from our faith in Christ?
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JustChristian
I don't think you understand. I'm saying that Christ's church should not endorse political parties or candidates. If you treat Democrats in your church or who are potential converts the way you do on the BB that distances half of this country from your church. Not the faith but your church.

Of course Christians need to apply their faith in every area of their life including politics.

 

[thegospelgeek]

Not the case. I answered it in a response to another post.

Originally Posted by JustChristian
Ah, but I have NEVER suggested that politics and religion be combined. That's the key point.

Can they be separate?

Can we separate ANY aspect of our lives from our faith in Christ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JustChristian
I don't think you understand. I'm saying that Christ's church should not endorse political parties or candidates. If you treat Democrats in your church or who are potential converts the way you do on the BB that distances half of this country from your church. Not the faith but your church.

Of course Christians need to apply their faith in every area of their life including politics.

Sorry, I missed that last line.

I understand your stance on war and respect said stance. I do feel that one has to weigh the issues according to scriptures. Obviously you feel the democrats are less prone to unjust wars than republicans. How do you support this claim?

What evidence do you have that our soldiers are murders? This is the question you keep dodging.

Have you sat down and spoken with soldiers who are in or have been in Iraq?

Does not intent come into play when determining guilt of murder?

Do you think more or less Iraq citizens have died because of our troops being in Iraq?

Which do think is more likely to happen, an innocent citizen killed in a car accident or an innocent citizen killed by American troops in Iraq?

I hope we can continue to discuss these questions. If you not want to do it in a public forum please PM me and we can email this discussion. I do hope to understand your thought process because I hear people say "How can you vote Republican/Democrat and be a Christian?" I would like to understand the other side.

 

[JustChristian]

I'm not aware of Christ's Church endorsing political candidates. However, I've noticed that a handful of congregations will do this, and at least half of them (if not more) are liberal ones that endorse Democratic candidates.


Oh man, the irony just slaps you in the face. I could easily replace Dems with Repubs in your sentence and apply it back to you. And, I believe the record shows that your disdain of your political opponents comes through quite clear - e.g., calling our soldiers murderers and the like. The hypocrisy has become tiresome.

So are you saying that these congregations are not a part of Christ's church?

 

[Andy T.]

So are you saying that these congregations are not a part of Christ's church?

No, but they don't speak for the Church as a whole. My point was that you broadbrush too much, and you only broadbrush one side and ignore the other.

 

[Don]

God does not give you a free pass to kill because the government said you can. No Christian should ever fight in any war. You only have the right to protect you and your family. The war for independence was born out of spirit of rebellion, this is not godly.

That's rich.

Oh, and that "protecting only you and yours"? John 15:13

Notice it doesn't say "family."

 

[Revmitchell]

When I say maybe that indicates an opinion on my part not a fact.

I quoted post #9 there is no use of the word maybe in the entire post by you. So again I ask for your source.

 

[Revmitchell]

It probably is not correct to say that this was a unilateral attack. It is probably correct to say that this was a bilateral attack primarily with token support from other countries.

As you know "uni" indicates a single entity and "bi" indicates a double entity. So what are the two lone entities that you are suggesting were part of the Iraq war?

 

[JustChristian]

No, but they don't speak for the Church as a whole. My point was that you broadbrush too much, and you only broadbrush one side and ignore the other.

I didn't mean to say that every church is guilty of this. I would say that most evangelical churches are guilty of it. As you pointed out, the historically black churches are biased towards the Democrats primarily so it is an issue on both sides.
Look back at my posts. I doubt that anyone here provides more substance and support for their positions. Do you ever do that?

 

[JustChristian]

I quoted post #9 there is no use of the word maybe in the entire post by you. So again I ask for your source.

Ridiculous. I'll stand on the definition of the word "maybe."

 

[JustChristian]

As you know "uni" indicates a single entity and "bi" indicates a double entity. So what are the two lone entities that you are suggesting were part of the Iraq war?

Common knowledge, the U.S. and the U.K. Notice I said attack. This doesn't include those attacked.

 

[Revmitchell]

Common knowledge, the U.S. and the U.K. Notice I said attack. This doesn't include those attacked.

So how many countries does the U.K. include? And you think it was only the many countries in the U.K.? You better read up on that in all your support and substance.

 

[Andy T.]

I didn't mean to say that every church is guilty of this. I would say that most evangelical churches are guilty of it.

I guess your experience is different than mine. I've been in several evangelical churches and none of them have endorsed candidates. The only ones I know about are the ones in the news - the ones trying to challenge tax-exemption or the like.

How about everyone else - do you see rampant in evangelical churches of candidate endorsements?

I think the problem isn't nearly acute as you make it out to be.

 

[thegospelgeek]

I guess your experience is different than mine. I've been in several evangelical churches and none of them have endorsed candidates. The only ones I know about are the ones in the news - the ones trying to challenge tax-exemption or the like.

How about everyone else - do you see rampant in evangelical churches of candidate endorsements?

I think the problem isn't nearly acute as you make it out to be.

Been in 50 or so and I have never seen the endorsement of any political candidate or party. Nor have I ever endorsed a candidate from the pulpit.