Is this Trump's WORST NIGHTMARE

[Conan]

You do realize that the Soviet Union no longer exists -
Hmm, I wonder if that is the reason the threat against NATO went way down.....

Then several Eastern Bloc countries wanted to join NATO!

Conan - since you refuse to answer about SOFA
there is no need to ask you about REFORGER

Yes I know the Soviet Union is no more. And we promised the old Soviets we would not advance 1" towards them. And we lied and gobbled up all Eastern European Countries to surround Russia and hemm then in even more. The Russians were too weak to do anything about it. But they said not Ukraine. And you have seen where we have pushed the issue. We are the Aggressors, not they.

 

[Conan]

I agree that the US should withdraw from NATO as they can not be depended upon to actually honor article 5. Trum* does seem to waffle on his position.

The result would be that the EU and Canada would then have to be more serious about their defense. Which as it happens they are now doing.

As for the US being able to act offensively for defensive purposes in your scenario of the EU losing and then the US jumping in as the savior well we see how well they are doing in Iran. The US has just shown they have an inflated image of themselves.

From what I see the economic pain the US is now experiencing is just a foretaste of what is to come. The effect of Trum*'s tariffs have not been fully felt yet.

I understand that you want to defend your countries image but you should be realistic in you views.

You agree that Europe should be fed into a meat grinder with Russia while the USA goes after China? Not even the USA can take on Russia and China at the same time. So the responsibility of Russia has to be handed off to our proxies in Europe. Excuse me I meant allies. I am sure you heard Hegseth's marching orders to Europe at the beginning of Trumps administration.

 

[Silverhair]

You agree that Europe should be fed into a meat grinder with Russia while the USA goes after China? Not even the USA can take on Russia and China at the same time. So the responsibility of Russia has to be handed off to our proxies in Europe. Excuse me I meant allies. I am sure you heard Hegseth's marching orders to Europe at the beginning of Trumps administration.

Read again what I said.

Russia cannot even defeat Ukraine so your view that it is a meat grinder is a bit over blown. The US cannot even take on Iran let alone China or Russia.

The US has shown itself to be undependable so the EU and Canada have chosen to move on without them.

Since I am not an American I do not pay attention to very much that comes out of that administration.

 

[Conan]

Read again what I said.

Russia cannot even defeat Ukraine so your view that it is a meat grinder is a bit over blown. The US cannot even take on Iran let alone China or Russia.

The US has shown itself to be undependable so the EU and Canada have chosen to move on without them.

Since I am not an American I do not pay attention to very much that comes out of that administration.

The Ukrainians are going through a meat grinder. Russia is defeating Ukraine. Ukraine will never exist in its current state. Russia is not after territory, but it is a war of attrition where their Army is being ground down.
But you are certainly correct on Iran for sure. It's insane to take any of them on. There is no reason for it.

But you have moved on for the US. You, meaning Europe are to take on Russia. Your very moving away is towards that very task. Europe and Canada will take on Russia without much US Aid . Just like the Gulf States took on Iran without US Aid. We could not help them .
I would be delighted to be wrong but the very moving away by Europe is part of the plan. I am glad you do not see Russia as a threat to Europe but there will be a false flag. There already have been some.

Anyway I would like to say you are right and I was wrong, but the evidence to me seems against it.

 

[JonC]

I agree that the US should withdraw from NATO as they can not be depended upon to actually honor article 5. Trum* does seem to waffle on his position.

The result would be that the EU and Canada would then have to be more serious about their defense. Which as it happens they are now doing.

As for the US being able to act offensively for defensive purposes in your scenario of the EU losing and then the US jumping in as the savior well we see how well they are doing in Iran. The US has just shown they have an inflated image of themselves.

From what I see the economic pain the US is now experiencing is just a foretaste of what is to come. The effect of Trum*'s tariffs have not been fully felt yet.

I understand that you want to defend your countries image but you should be realistic in you views.

You misunderstood. I was not talking about the US saving the EU. I was talking about the US leaving the EU to fend for itself. At this time the EU vould not (it needs time to become self-reliant).

I was saying let the EU fall, then push back againsy the aggressor just enough to keep it a buffer area. Same with Canada. Stop all support and trading.




I do not really care about my country's image.

My concern is more about my community and church.

I do not understand the "economic pain" we are experiencing. We have been growing quickly, plenty of economic growth, well paying jobs, etc. In fact, many here are more concerned about growth (they do not like seeing businesses come, homes built, etc. because they fear it will end the rural setting). Prices have increased but so have wages. Our economy is better today than it was in 2018 (when I moved here).

In fact, the US economy has grown much more than Canada's economy over the last 2 years.

 

[Ben1445]

The end of the Cold war showed the Soviets had no intention of invading Europe. We had them penned in and restricted. We cut them off economically when ever we could. We were the Aggressors of the Cold War. You did not get the memo? The Soviets had no intentions of invading Europe! History has shown this out! You are still in the Cold War mentality of CIA propaganda. Free yourself, it still colors your world.

Even today we have Russia and China surrounded by military bases!

I see you are not in the know.

Your ignorance of how communism works is apparent.

These are only physical barriers. While you are bothered by the physical barriers and push for socialist and communist ideals, you overlook the fact ( or else are complicit) that the ideological infiltration of socialism/communism does not have sufficient barriers to hinder what we guard against militarily.

 

[Ben1445]

I do not pay attention to very much that comes out of that administration.

Hahaha
That is funny. Most of the threads I see about the current administration seem to come from you. Take this very thread for an example. From what I can tell, you concern yourself with this administration very much.
Your “disinterest” is intended to be an insult. But call it what it is and don’t fool yourself. You dislike the current administration but you do give it attention. You wish to insult it but what you say to insult it is quite clearly inaccurate.

 

[Conan]

I see you are not in the know.

Your ignorance of how communism works is apparent.

Yes I am ignorant of how Communism works. Guilty as charged. I was not raised in a Communist Country and I never studied it in school. I was taught that it was bad. I don't have much interest in it. Perhaps I should study it but there are too many other things I would rather study. True, I know very little about Communism. I am not a Communist by the way.

These are only physical barriers. While you are bothered by the physical barriers and push for socialist and communist ideals, you overlook the fact ( or else are complicit) that the ideological infiltration of socialism/communism does not have sufficient barriers to hinder what we guard against militarily.

Russia has not been Communists for a long time now .
And people have the right to have whatever system they want. You can't just kill people because they are different than you . We should not anyway. And remember, God used Communist to destroy Hitler and Nazi Germany.

 

[Ben1445]

Yes I am ignorant of how Communism works. Guilty as charged. I was not raised in a Communist Country and I never studied it in school. I was taught that it was bad. I don't have much interest in it. Perhaps I should study it but there are too many other things I would rather study. True, I know very little about Communism. I am not a Communist by the way.

Russia has not been Communists for a long time now .

That is what they say?

It’s not quite that simple. I wish it were.

And people have the right to have whatever system they want. You can't just kill people because they are different than you . We should not anyway. And remember, God used Communist to destroy Hitler and Nazi Germany.

Yes, you should study communism and find out why you were told it was bad.

I’m not talking about killing communists. That is your fetish. Some of us don’t think the same way you do. You could use a bit more of Philippians 4:8 IMO. All your posts are nothing but gloom and doom, death and destruction.

 

[Silverhair]

The Ukrainians are going through a meat grinder. Russia is defeating Ukraine. Ukraine will never exist in its current state. Russia is not after territory, but it is a war of attrition where their Army is being ground down.
But you are certainly correct on Iran for sure. It's insane to take any of them on. There is no reason for it.

But you have moved on for the US. You, meaning Europe are to take on Russia. Your very moving away is towards that very task. Europe and Canada will take on Russia without much US Aid . Just like the Gulf States took on Iran without US Aid. We could not help them .
I would be delighted to be wrong but the very moving away by Europe is part of the plan. I am glad you do not see Russia as a threat to Europe but there will be a false flag. There already have been some.

Anyway I would like to say you are right and I was wrong, but the evidence to me seems against it.

Not sure where you are getting your information but it is rather odd.

But you will believe what you want to believe.

 

[JonC]

@Silverhair

Most people get their information about the politics of foreign nations from their chosen news outlets.

Most of the time discussions like ours are like most people arguing with an astronaut who has been to the moon what it is like to be on the moon.

You are an opportunity to me. Rather than reading political articles or watching the news (I do neither) I can ask a Canadian.

Here is what I have heard from others, and I would like to know if it is true.

1. I have heard that Canada has moved to refer to intentionally not using another's preferred pronouns a hate crime which is a criminal offense. Is this true?

2. I watched a Canadian movie a week or so ago. In the movie a woman was in the hospital and the medical facility provided the means for the woman to kill herself. Does this really happen?


I mentioned that Canada has violated international law several times this past decade.

If Canadian law conflicts with international law does Canada forfeit her sovereignty to follow international law?

 

[Silverhair]

You misunderstood. I was not talking about the US saving the EU. I was talking about the US leaving the EU to fend for itself. At this time the EU vould not (it needs time to become self-reliant).

I was saying let the EU fall, then push back againsy the aggressor just enough to keep it a buffer area. Same with Canada. Stop all support and trading.




I do not really care about my country's image.

My concern is more about my community and church.

I do not understand the "economic pain" we are experiencing. We have been growing quickly, plenty of economic growth, well paying jobs, etc. In fact, many here are more concerned about growth (they do not like seeing businesses come, homes built, etc. because they fear it will end the rural setting). Prices have increased but so have wages. Our economy is better today than it was in 2018 (when I moved here).

In fact, the US economy has grown much more than Canada's economy over the last 2 years.

You do know that the US is dependent on a number of things from Canada. Sure you could get some of them from other countries but at what cost?

The EU knows that the US can not be depended upon so they are building up their own defense just as Canada is doing.

You have said before that where you live is doing fine. G;ad to hear that. But the reality is that the cost of Trum*'s tariffs will be felt by the population at large.

Yes our economy has had to deal with the fallout from Trudeau but we are now seeing growth as new business is coming in. That has been Carney's push and we will see where it goes from here.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair

Most people get their information about the politics of foreign nations from their chosen news outlets.

Most of the time discussions like ours are like most people arguing with an astronaut who has been to the moon what it is like to be on the moon.

You are an opportunity to me. Rather than reading political articles or watching the news (I do neither) I can ask a Canadian.

Here is what I have heard from others, and I would like to know if it is true.

1. I have heard that Canada has moved to refer to intentionally not using another's preferred pronouns a hate crime which is a criminal offense. Is this true?

2. I watched a Canadian movie a week or so ago. In the movie a woman was in the hospital and the medical facility provided the means for the woman to kill herself. Does this really happen?


I mentioned that Canada has violated international law several times this past decade.

If Canadian law conflicts with international law does Canada forfeit her sovereignty to follow international law?

To answer your questions as best as I can

1] I posted this before and it should answer your question

Freedom of expression in Canada is protected as a fundamental freedom under Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but it is not absolute; the government can impose reasonable limits on this right, such as laws against hate speech and defamation.

2] Our government under Trudeau did pass the MAID act which i do not agree with. He is a woke liberal that has no moral compass.

"does Canada forfeit her sovereignty to follow international law"

What would make you think that? Just as the US does not loose it's sovereignty when it follows an international law.

 

[Silverhair]

Hahaha
That is funny. Most of the threads I see about the current administration seem to come from you. Take this very thread for an example. From what I can tell, you concern yourself with this administration very much.
Your “disinterest” is intended to be an insult. But call it what it is and don’t fool yourself. You dislike the current administration but you do give it attention. You wish to insult it but what you say to insult it is quite clearly inaccurate.

I am only concerned with how the POTUS Trump admin effects Canada. We hear the dumb things he says and how he is placing higher taxes on you through his tariffs.

I think your present admin leaves a lot to be desired but that is your problem to deal with.

Think what you like Ben but the framers, ranchers, truck drivers, and even those that have to pay the higher prices may differ with you.

 

[JonC]

You do know that the US is dependent on a number of things from Canada. Sure you could get some of them from other countries but at what cost?

Yes. And the US should shift from that dependency. We can gain independence fairly quickly in some areas (petroleum and potash comes to mind...in fact, MPSC is engaged in a project to increase domestic production to reduce imported potash). The goal is not to eliminate imports but to make imports non-critucal.

The cost from other countries would depend on other negotiations. As you point out, Canada and the EU no longer desires US support, which frees up a lot of resources to be realigned.

The EU knows that the US can not be depended upon so they are building up their own defense just as Canada is doing.

The US knows that it cannot depend on the EU and Canada as well. But that is fine. Relationships beyween nations depend on mutual benefit, and the benefit needs to be evaluated. Canada offers less than it takes. The relationship is lopsided.

The US got in the position of a rich uncle not noticing how much his nephews were taking, until he did.

Yes our economy has had to deal with the fallout from Trudeau but we are now seeing growth as new business is coming in. That has been Carney's push and we will see where it goes from here.

You brought up economy. My point is that Canada's economy is growing significantly slower than the US economy.

 

[JonC]

To answer your questions as best as I can

1] I posted this before and it should answer your question

Freedom of expression in Canada is protected as a fundamental freedom under Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but it is not absolute; the government can impose reasonable limits on this right, such as laws against hate speech and defamation.

2] Our government under Trudeau did pass the MAID act which i do not agree with. He is a woke liberal that has no moral compass.

"does Canada forfeit her sovereignty to follow international law"

What would make you think that? Just as the US does not loose it's sovereignty when it follows an international law.

Thank you for the info.

1. Who decides what is "hate speech"?

What I mean is, if a man insists I call him "she" and I refuse (I believe that would amount to lying) and refer to him as "he", would that be "hate speech" or a crime?

2. Is the MAID just for terminally ill patients at the end of their lives or is it simply suicide (I assume adults only)?

3. It was a question. Canada has violated international law several times.

If a Canadian law violates international law, which does Canada follow?

I asked because the US captured of Maduro can be legal under US law (several important issues, including the indictments, the fact that the US has not recognized Maduro as the leader of Venezuela for years, terroristic activities as defined by the US, etc.).

Under US law there is a responsibility to attempt capture but under the UN it would be illegal.

So should Canadia submit to international law if there is a conflict between that law and Canadian law?

 

[Silverhair]

The US knows that it cannot depend on the EU and Canada as well. But that is fine. Relationships beyween nations depend on mutual benefit, and the benefit needs to be evaluated. Canada offers less than it takes. The relationship is lopsided.

That may be true in both cases and that is why we have chosen to turn away and develop other trading partners that do not try to dominate us.

Yes it is lopsided the US is a great taker and offers very little.

We can gain independence fairly quickly in some areas (petroleum and potash comes to mind

That is just a pipe dream but it is one you seem comfortable with.

You brought up economy. My point is that Canada's economy is growing significantly slower than the US economy.

Yes it has been due to the bad leadership we had but now we are changing that.

 

[Silverhair]

Thank you for the info.

1. Who decides what is "hate speech"?

What I mean is, if a man insists I call him "she" and I refuse (I believe that would amount to lying) and refer to him as "he", would that be "hate speech" or a crime?

2. Is the MAID just for terminally ill patients at the end of their lives or is it simply suicide (I assume adults only)?

3. It was a question. Canada has violated international law several times.

If a Canadian law violates international law, which does Canada follow?

I asked because the US captured of Maduro can be legal under US law (several important issues, including the indictments, the fact that the US has not recognized Maduro as the leader of Venezuela for years, terroristic activities as defined by the US, etc.).

Under US law there is a responsibility to attempt capture but under the UN it would be illegal.

So should Canadia submit to international law if there is a conflict between that law and Canadian law?

1] That still falls under

Freedom of expression in Canada is protected as a fundamental freedom under Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but it is not absolute; the government can impose reasonable limits on this right, such as laws against hate speech and defamation.

2] Have not looked into it to any extent as I do not agree with someone taking their own life.

3] The US used it's own laws to invade another country and kidnap the leader of that country just as they invaded another country and stated a war more than once. The US laws apply in your country not in Canada or anywhere else. Trum* has shown he has no respect for laws that he does not like. He actually is in the same boat as Putin.

Canada as all nations should abide by international laws. If nations did not do so then we would have anarchy.

It seems you want to justify whatever your government chooses to do. Invade countries, kidnap people or even just kill them because you suspect them of doing some crime. And then you wonder why the rest of the world looks at the US as if it has become a rogue state.

Has Canada always done so, I could not give you an answer on that.

 

[JonC]

That may be true in both cases and that is why we have chosen to turn away and develop other trading partners that do not try to dominate us.

Yes it is lopsided the US is a great taker and offers very little.


That is just a pipe dream but it is one you seem comfortable with.


Yes it has been due to the bad leadership we had but now we are changing that.

Ummm , no. The US has been a greater giver (both now and historically).

You mentioned the US violating UN law to enforce US law.

The US provides 22% of UN funding. That is over $14 billion annually. The US pays 16% (6.2 Billion) of NATO's direct common-funded operating budget and accounts for 60% ($980 billion) of the total combined defense spending across all NATO members.

You are telling me that the EU and Canada can make up the loss that would occur should the US stop providing for their defense. How?

Every NATO member has come up with 60% more, every UN member 22% more. And what the US gives is larger than Canada's entire annual budget.

Canada spends $63 billion on national defense. They meet the NATO target, but this is based on GDP. The US more than doubles what is required.

Canada's GDP is $2.5 trillion. The US GDP is over $32 trillion.

No, the US is a giver in the relationship. Many here believe the US gives far too much and should use that domestically.

 

[JonC]

1] That still falls under

Freedom of expression in Canada is protected as a fundamental freedom under Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but it is not absolute; the government can impose reasonable limits on this right, such as laws against hate speech and defamation.

Yes, I have been reading about this (it got me curious). Reading Canadian sites it serms accidentally calling a man who identifies as a woman "she" will probably not qualify as hate speech.

BUT knowing that a man identifies identifies as a woman and not calling him "she" is hate speech and can be prosecuted as such.

2] Have not looked into it to any extent as I do not agree with someone taking their own life.

Looked at the standard on this. Natural death must be reasonably forseeable, the person must be at least 18 years old.

People suffering solely from mental illness are temporary excluded from assisted suicide until March 17, 2027.

This is a scary law.

3] The US used it's own laws to invade another country and kidnap the leader of that country

The US did capture him under US law, but per US law he was not the leader of Venezuela.

This goes to my question.

Canada has violated several international laws over the past decade. I do not know if this was in accordance with Canadian law.

The question was which law, if in opposition, should Canada follow, international law or Canadian law?


I am not making excuses for the US. I am looking at the reasons used. Personally I believe the true reasons were monetary.