Is Unbelief a sin ?

[Brightfame52]

Yes, by all means and it's illustrated by the unbelief of the jews who departed from egypt Heb 3:16-19. Now notice vs 17 " them that had sinned" are them that believed not in vs 18-19, the sin was believing not or unbelief.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

So now when Paul preached that Christ died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3, and yet that didn't include their sin of unbelief, then he lied on Christ. The point is this, if Christ died for our sins, then He died for our unbelief, and we can't be condemned for it as some are Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Now proof positive that unbelievers Christ died for can not be condemned for unbelief is Rom 5:10, that while we were enemies and unbelievers obviously, we still had been reconciled to God by the death of His Son, which is not the case if we are under condemnation for unbelief.

 

[DaveXR650]

This probably just shows that "theology" has limits.

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

If the reason they could not enter in was unbelief then you could assume that election or non-election was not the reason.

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

One could assume that God delivered everyone, but because of refusing to believe, some were not saved.

Now proof positive that unbelievers Christ died for can not be condemned for unbelief is Rom 5:10, that while we were enemies and unbelievers obviously, we still had been reconciled to God by the death of His Son, which is not the case if we are under condemnation for unbelief.

Owen used this argument against the Arminians. But Owen also believed that the "offer" of salvation is to everyone. If your theology doesn't agree with that then it would be logical to figure that a non-offer refused is no offense. Owen was a staunch Calvinist but taught that the greatest offense a man could do was to refuse to believe. But for that to make any sense it has to be true that there is a real offer of salvation upon belief.

 

[Brightfame52]

@DaveXR650

If the reason they could not enter in was unbelief then you could assume that election or non-election was not the reason.

Thats beside the point, the point is that unbelief is a sin. And Christ died for the sins of the elect or those He died for, hence unbelief cant be a cause of condemnation for anyone Christ died for, no sin for all that matter.

 

[DaveXR650]

Now proof positive that unbelievers Christ died for can not be condemned for unbelief is Rom 5:10, that while we were enemies and unbelievers obviously, we still had been reconciled to God by the death of His Son, which is not the case if we are under condemnation for unbelief.

But it seems like you are trying to make a case for taking away faith as a condition of reconciliation with Christ. Unbelievers that Christ died for (which includes everyone I think), become part of all this by faith. It's how they link up to the benefits of Christ's atonement. I don't have a problem that God brings about faith in some manner in those who are elect but it almost sounds like you are suggesting that salvation can occur without faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

Why them Christ died for cant die in unbelief !

Jesus once said Jn 10:26

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

In other words, if they were of His Sheep that He came to live and die in behalf of, they would believe on Him, or they would become believers. Now why is that so ?

Because Christ has came and fulfilled the Law for them, and hence its written Rom 10: 4

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

When Christ came in the flesh, He came to fulfill the Law for all them He represented, them which had been given Him of His Father. He in their names and stead did obey Gods Law for them, it was in His Heart to do so Heb 10:7-9

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Now this actually was taken from a Psalm 40:7-8

7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Now what needs to be understood is that Christ did this not as a single private person, but as an Surety Head Representative, like Adam was in the beginning. Now, Christ did successfully do and keep and fulfill the Law for all whom He represented, being totally obedient to all of its righteous precepts.

Now remember when Jesus made this statement Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Well these weightier matters of the Law, Judgment, Mercy, and Faith He did , kept and obeyed for them He came in the flesh for.

Luke writes Lk 11:42

But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Basically what Jesus is saying that these false people of God neglected to do is this Matt 22:36-40

36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

So Jesus has fully fulfilled these Two commandments for all whom He came to live and die for !

He has for them #1. "loved the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind

#2. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now understand, When He did this, these Two things, He did them in behalf of His People He came to live and die for, He kept the Law of God perfectly for them, and God reckons it so as if they did it themselves, as it was in Adam, when he sinned against Gods Law, when he sinned, all sinned with him, so it is with Christ, when He obeyed, all in Him obeyed.

Now within Christ's Obedience to Gods Law was His Faith and Love to God Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Christ in His suretyship obedience to Gods Law in the behalf of His people could not have obeyed without Faith, for in fact, its impossible to please God apart from it Heb 11:6. Christ had Faith as it is written Heb 12:2

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

As the Author of Faith, it means several things, one being this. The word author in the original is the greek word archēgos and means:

the chief leader, prince
of Christ

one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer
the author

He was the example of Faith in God !

So therefore He had Faith in keeping the Law of God for His People, Hence His Peoples Faith began in Him, when He kept the Law for them.

So that's why its impossible for anyone Christ Lived and died for can live and die in unbelief, seeing they have already in their Surety Head believed ! Its just as sure as not one person Adam represented in his sin for them, can not be born a sinner, to manifest their union with adam when he sinned, and so it is with Christ, not one sinner He lived and died for can live and die without Faith to manifest their union with Christ !

 

[kyredneck]

If the reason they could not enter in was unbelief then you could assume that election or non-election was not the reason.

IMO, possibly the MAJORITY of God's elect do not enter into (or remain in) the Sabbath Rest (not heaven above) due to disobedience.

 

[Brightfame52]

Why them Christ died for cant die in unbelief !2

That those Adam represented were made sinners by his disobedience Rom 5:19 a

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

They had to be manifested as sinners, So likewise, those whom Christ represented and by His Obedience to the Law, keeping it in Faith, they are made believers, to manifest as believers.

You see, to deny this is tantamount to saying that Christ did not keep the Law for them ! And to say that is to say He didn't die for them. In essence Faith in Christ is an manifestation that Christ did in ones behalf and stead, obeyed Gods Law for them !

Because His Faith was their Faith, they receive in the New Birth the Faith of the Son of God, Pauls meaning here Gal 2:20

20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In other words, the Faith of the Son of God believers live by is the direct result and effect of Christ Loving them, and giving Himself for them. His Faith was theirs, and so its communicated to them by measure in the New Birth. Rom 12:3

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Faith is the Gift from the Son of God, and its given to each of His Body members He lived and died for as representative ! So in conclusion, if one lives and dies in unbelief, the answer is simple, he or she was not of the Sheep Christ Lived and died for Jn 10:26 !

 

[Brightfame52]

If sinners Christ died for still die in unbelief, it would contradict the very purpose of mercy. See God concluded all His Chosen People in Unbelief ! And what for ? This scripture tells us Rom 11:23

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. Now whose the All ? Why he told us in Rom 9:23-24

And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

God in His Eternal Purpose in Christ, enclosed the His elect into unbelief, so that, for the purpose of being able to show them mercy, compassion in that state of unbelief/disobedience, not to condemn them for it, as many false teachers teach today, that God condemns sinners Christ died for, for unbelief ! Thats the biggest lie ever told !

Paul is an example of how God has mercy upon His Elect for their unbelief. Remember Pauls testimony of all what he did in unbelief 1 Tim 1:12-13


12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;


13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

Paul as all other Vessels of Mercy, obtain, receive mercy in their unbelief ! Thats what Paul means in Rom 11:23

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Paul was not broken off because of Unbelief as many other jews were his contemporaries Rom 11:20

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

But Paul along with other Vessels of Mercy, not just among the jews, but also among the Gentiles Rom 9:23-24


And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?


So its not even possible for those whom Christ died should die in or be condemned for unbelief, their unbelief obtains the Mercy of God upon them !

 

[DaveXR650]

If sinners Christ died for still die in unbelief, it would contradict the very purpose of mercy.

This is where theology falls short and probably why the Bible is not written in the form of theology. These arguments always come to a dead end with human knowledge.

If you are really into the idea that God is in charge of all events you will have no trouble believing that God will just as much decree that those Christ died for are the exact same people as those that will believe. So you cannot present an argument that someone might not believe yet Christ died for them. Owen, in arguing with the Arminians did that, which is unfortunate. He also said that unbelief is the worst sin a human can do against God, worse that the demons, because at least the demons were never offered salvation on the condition of belief. Go figure.

And the other argument would be that Christ either died or he didn't. He did, and we, being human and mortal, are confronted with this at a point of time in our short lives. Speculation of how all this works from God's eternal standpoint doesn't change the reality of this that we face in real time. Which is why the Puritans, like Owen, many of whom were high Calvinists in theology, had no problem warning people to respond to the gospel now, without delay, lest you offend God and he withdraw grace. This sounds to me a lot like a fundamentalist Baptist preacher, at least in the old days.

 

[Brightfame52]

This is where theology falls short and probably why the Bible is not written in the form of theology. These arguments always come to a dead end with human knowledge.

If you are really into the idea that God is in charge of all events you will have no trouble believing that God will just as much decree that those Christ died for are the exact same people as those that will believe. So you cannot present an argument that someone might not believe yet Christ died for them. Owen, in arguing with the Arminians did that, which is unfortunate. He also said that unbelief is the worst sin a human can do against God, worse that the demons, because at least the demons were never offered salvation on the condition of belief. Go figure.

And the other argument would be that Christ either died or he didn't. He did, and we, being human and mortal, are confronted with this at a point of time in our short lives. Speculation of how all this works from God's eternal standpoint doesn't change the reality of this that we face in real time. Which is why the Puritans, like Owen, many of whom were high Calvinists in theology, had no problem warning people to respond to the gospel now, without delay, lest you offend God and he withdraw grace. This sounds to me a lot like a fundamentalist Baptist preacher, at least in the old days.

Christ died for unbelief, so one He died for cant die in their sins in unbelief as these can Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Thats because if they remain in unbelief its indicative they were not one of His Sheep He died for, hence they are condemned by the law.

 

[Dave G]

If the reason they could not enter in was unbelief then you could assume that election or non-election was not the reason.

If you'll notice in the passage he's referencing, the reason that Israel could not enter into the Promised Land was because of unbelief.
It had nothing to do with their election or non-election to eternal life.

Unbelief is a sin, and the Lord Jesus went to the cross for all the sins of God's elect...
While they were yet sinners ( in unbelief ), He died for them ( please see Romans 5 ).

 

[kyredneck]

f you'll notice in the passage he's referencing, the reason that Israel could not enter into the Promised Land was because of unbelief.
It had nothing to do with their election or non-election to eternal life.

Spot on! The Promised Land (Land of Milk & Honey) in the Exodus Motif does not represent heaven above, it's the Sabbath Rest, i.e., reposing in the kingdom of God, here, on earth, now, Romans 14:17.

 

[Brightfame52]

Unbelief is a sin that those whom Christ died for healed from,

1 Pet 2:24-25

24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

Now the elect of God went astray, apostatized in Adam in the beginning,

Isaiah wrote Isa 53:5-6

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Yet the stripes of Christ healed that going astray. The word healed is the word rāp̄ā':

To heal, to cure, to restore
Meaning: to mend, to cure
: The Hebrew verb "rapha" primarily means "to heal" or "to restore to health." It is used in the context of physical healing, emotional restoration, and spiritual renewal. The term can refer to the healing of individuals, nations, or even the land. It conveys the idea of making whole or restoring to an original state of well-being.

Its the word Hosea uses Hos 14:4

I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.

This promise of course has an eye to the stripes of Christ,and notice its promised to heal their backsliding.

The word backsliding mshuwbah:

: Backsliding, apostasy, faithlessness
Meaning: apostasy

Word Origin: Derived from the root שׁוּב (shuv), meaning "to turn back" or "to return."

: The Greek equivalent often used in the Septuagint for similar concepts is ἀποστασία (apostasia), Strong's Greek #646, which also means "apostasy" or "falling away."

Usage: The term "meshubah" is used in the Hebrew Bible to describe a turning away or backsliding, particularly in a spiritual or moral sense. It often refers to the act of abandoning faithfulness to God, reverting to previous sinful behaviors, or falling into apostasy. The word conveys a sense of betrayal or unfaithfulness to a covenant relationship, especially between Israel and God.

It means faithless, which is unbelief !

Now notice again in Hos 14:4 that Gods anger has been turned away, that speaks to propitiation, thats through the blood of Christ, God has been reconciled to them,

Thats through the Death of His Son Rom 510

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life

Those for whom Christ died will be healed from their unbelief, their estrangement from God, their turning away and fall , apostacy in their first parents.

 

[Brightfame52]

Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?​

Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Now the sin of the world did involve unbelief. Eve didn't believe the truth of God. God had said in the day that you eat you shall surely die. Observe Gen 2:17

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Now Gen 3:2-4

And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:


as a result of unbelief:


5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

 

[Brightfame52]

Did Christ die for the sin of unbelief ?

Now unbelief and disobedience are relatively the same thing. Unbelief is called not obeying here 2 Thess 1:8

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Now to obey not is disobedience

Jn 3:36

He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.

Believes not here in the greek is the word ἀπειθέω:

I disobey, rebel, am disloyal, refuse conformity

Now disobedience s the parent sin in adam Rom 5:19 which began with eve not believing God because of the serpents seduction, hence she believed his [the serpents lie] over Gods Truth. Recall what God had said what would happen if they ate of that particular tree, that "ye shall surely die Gen 2:16-17 and the serpent said to her the opposite to Gods Truth Gen 3:1-6. This is the beginning of the parent sin of unbelief/disobedience which all by nature are imprisoned to Rom 11:31-32

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So now to say Christ didn't die for unbelief, is to deny Christ died for mans sin in adam, which contradicts scripture truth Rom 5:15-16

15 But not as the offence [unbelief/disobedience], so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.


16 And not as it was by one that sinned[disobedience/unbelief], so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

Christ took away the sin of the world Jn 1:29, but if they who He died for are condemned for unbelief, Jn 1:29 is a lie !

 

[Brightfame52]

Now the sinners Christ died for cannot be charged or have laid to their account unbelief/disobedience, and here's why ! Christ death was a covenantal death, according to the stipulations of the everlasting covenant Heb 13:20 which is also known in time as the New Covenant or Testament Matt 26:28. Now one of the promises of this death is this Heb 8:12

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. Well unbelief is a unrighteousness, so God has promised to be merciful to their unrighteousness/unbelief. Same as in Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

So for God to condemn any sinner Christ died for, for unbelief makes God a liar !

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God" (I John 5:1). Belief is a product of the new birth, the evidence of God's love and the assurance of eternal life.

 

[Brightfame52]

The elect of God, like all men are naturally born into this world in unbelief, for Paul writing of the elect from out of both the jews and gentiles writes Rom 11:32

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Yet God had a merciful purpose for doing that to the elect, not to condemn them in that state, but the very opposite, to have mercy upon them for being in that state. Understand as well that the word unbelief here also is rendered and means disobedience. Its the greek word apeitheia. The word apeithēs means:

impersuasible, not compliant, disobedient, contumacious

obstinacy, obstinate opposition to the divine will, disbelief (obstinate and rebellious)

Its this state God imprisoned the elect in for the purpose of mercy !

 

[Brightfame52]

Now being in unbelief means a few things spiritually for all sinners naturally. Naturally the elect as well as the non elect are spiritually blind to the spiritual things of God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

2 Cor 4:4

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Secondly, the elect by nature in unbelief have hardness of heart towards God and spiritual matters. In fact the word blindness in Eph 4:18 is the grreek word pōrōsisand means:

stupidity or callousness:—blindness, hardness.

Paul writing of jews by nature writes Rom 2:5

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

However that doesnt just apply to the unregenerate jews, but to unregenerate gentiles as well, who are in unbelief.

And thirdly to be in unbelief is to be spiritually alienated from the life of God Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

This is how God finds His elect for the purpose of mercy !

 

[Brightfame52]

The mercy that God had upon the elect is a mercy towards from everlasting unto everlasting Ps 103:17

17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

This constituted them the vessels of mercy Rom 9:23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Now with this in mind, men and women who are condemned already which believe not Jn 3:18

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

These cannot be of the elect, the vessels of mercy, because they wont be condemned while in unbelief since God consigned the in unbelief for the purpose of having mercy upon them Rom 11:32. 1