Is Unbelief a sin ?

[Brightfame52]

Is unbelief a sin? Does Going Against the will of God equate with sin? Yes.
Are humans commanded to love God with all our heart mind and soul? Yes
Can a person love a God he does not believe exists or fulfills His promises? No

Did we volitionally sin at conception, because we do not believe in God or His Christ before we have even heard the gospel? No. No because we have done nothing good or bad. But we are in a sinful state, separated from God as a consequence of Adam's sin. We were made "sinners." And the only way out of that sinful state is for God credit our faith as righteousness. Thus, at conception, we are condemned due to unbelief. John 3:18.

Unbelief cant condemn anyone Jesus died for. They are reconciled to God while in unbelief by Christs death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies/unbelievers, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[37818]

Mark 10:14-15, . . . But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Allow the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

 

[Silverhair]

Unbelief cant condemn anyone Jesus died for. They are reconciled to God while in unbelief by Christs death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies/unbelievers, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So by your own words BF you are a universalist. 1 Jn 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Plus you do have a problem with your view as no one is saved by Christs death but rather by His life as the verse you quoted would show you if you just kept reading.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

But the bible is clear that not all are saved but only those that freely trust in Him. Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

But I am sure you will disagree with what the bible says and hold to your errant man made philosophy.

 

[Brightfame52]

So by your own words BF you are a universalist. 1 Jn 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Plus you do have a problem with your view as no one is saved by Christs death but rather by His life as the verse you quoted would show you if you just kept reading.

Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

But the bible is clear that not all are saved but only those that freely trust in Him. Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

But I am sure you will disagree with what the bible says and hold to your errant man made philosophy.

Bearing false witness

 

[37818]

Bearing false witness

Romans 2:1, Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

Matthew 7:1-2, Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

 

[Van]

That is a rather odd bit of logic @Van. At conception are they able to trust in God, NO are they able to deny God, NO.

John 3:18 does not support your view as it shows man making a choice.

Can young children or those that are mentally impaired make those choices. In other words to show a faith so as to be credited with righteousness?

By your logic all the mentally impaired and those children that die within, to pick a age, 5 years of birth are all condemned to hell? Do you really believe a loving God would do that?

Please don't sidetrack this thread with questions about what I believe. The only issue is what the Bible says with explicit clarity.
1) You question "my" logic. Off topic deflection
2) John 3:18 may be seen as requiring rejection of God's revelation. However, just as easily it can be seen as only addressing the state of belief.
To claim one view and deny the other is without merit.
3) The person is not credited with righteousness, only their faith. Romans Chapter 4.
4) If we read John 3:18, they were condemned (or judged by God) before they believed, thus from conception.
5) But in John 3:19 we that the judgement was upon those whose deeds (actions on their part) were evil. We know that those in the womb have not done anything good or bad, so could the judgement of John 3:18 differ in some way from the judgement in John 3:19. Yes.
6) Lastly, nothing in John 3 says those who have done nothing good or bad are condemned to Hades. If fact I believe scripture says they are not!

 

[Silverhair]

Bearing false witness

Now your calling the word of God a false witness? Come on BF you really are starting to wander a bit of the reservation.

Why do you continue to deny scripture?

 

[Silverhair]

Please don't sidetrack this thread with questions about what I believe. The only issue is what the Bible says with explicit clarity.
1) You question "my" logic. Off topic deflection
2) John 3:18 may be seen as requiring rejection of God's revelation. However, just as easily it can be seen as only addressing the state of belief.
To claim one view and deny the other is without merit.
3) The person is not credited with righteousness, only their faith. Romans Chapter 4.
4) If we read John 3:18, they were condemned (or judged by God) before they believed, thus from conception.
5) But in John 3:19 we that the judgement was upon those whose deeds (actions on their part) were evil. We know that those in the womb have not done anything good or bad, so could the judgement of John 3:18 differ in some way from the judgement in John 3:19. Yes.
6) Lastly, nothing in John 3 says those who have done nothing good or bad are condemned to Hades. If fact I believe scripture says they are not!

As I said @Van your logic is flawed.
You wrote "And the only way out of that sinful state is for God credit our faith as righteousness. Thus, at conception, we are condemned due to unbelief. John 3:18."

How can someone be condemned at conception Van, are they able to think and make judgements? How can they have unbelief in anything? Are you saying they are guilty of Adams sin?

I think you need to read Joh 3:18 again Van. "because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God" are you now saying that at conception we can hear and make rational choices? When did these zygotes have the gospel preached to them?

To question is not off topic as it relates to what you have posted and the complete lack of logic found there in. In other words how did you come to those irrational conclusions from the text of Joh 3:18

 

[Brightfame52]

Christs death alone Justified many, hence acquitted them before Gods law and justice without their believing Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

 

[Van]

As I said @Van your logic is flawed.
You wrote "And the only way out of that sinful state is for God credit our faith as righteousness. Thus, at conception, we are condemned due to unbelief. John 3:18."

How can someone be condemned at conception Van, are they able to think and make judgements? How can they have unbelief in anything? Are you saying they are guilty of Adams sin?

I think you need to read Joh 3:18 again Van. "because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God" are you now saying that at conception we can hear and make rational choices? When did these zygotes have the gospel preached to them?

To question is not off topic as it relates to what you have posted and the complete lack of logic found there in. In other words how did you come to those irrational conclusions from the text of Joh 3:18

Once again, you are asking what I think. Please address what scripture says. We are condemned already for unbelief. Not for rejecting God's revelation.

 

[Silverhair]

Once again, you are asking what I think. Please address what scripture says. We are condemned already for unbelief. Not for rejecting God's revelation.

@Van I have addressed what the scriptures say when I say your view is flawed. How can a zygote exhibit unbelief. You are sounding more and more like a calvinist with each passing post.

And your not answering questions as they point out your failed logic.

The verse does not support your view. Note what it says Van, "because he has not believed". That requires that they can make rational choices. Why are they not condemned "Whoever believes in Him is not condemned" That is the revelation of who Christ is.

Context does not support you view Van.
Joh 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Van

We are condemned already for unbelief.

Only the non elect for whom Christ didn't die, and they are condemned not only for unbelief, but the law condemns them for every transgression they have sinned against it.

 

[Brightfame52]

God by the Death of Christ has reconciled many for whom Chrisr died, by His death even while they are being enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now being thus reconciled they are not under any condemnation from God even as unbelievers, Thanks solely to the Death of Christ.

 

[Van]

@Van I have addressed what the scriptures say when I say your view is flawed. How can a zygote exhibit unbelief. You are sounding more and more like a calvinist with each passing post.

And your not answering questions as they point out your failed logic.

The verse does not support your view. Note what it says Van, "because he has not believed". That requires that they can make rational choices. Why are they not condemned "Whoever believes in Him is not condemned" That is the revelation of who Christ is.

Context does not support you view Van.
Joh 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him.
Joh 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

How can a "zygote" believe. No one can believe until they have heard the gospel, faith comes from hearing.

The person makes a rational choice to believe, thus before that they have not believed. Your view reads into the text what is not there.

The context of John 3:18 is the humanity was condemned already, because Jesus came to save the condemned.

People start out condemned and some never have the opportunity to believe. That is the biblical doctrine you deny.

 

[Van]

@Van

Only the non elect for whom Christ didn't die, and they are condemned not only for unbelief, but the law condemns them for every transgression they have sinned against it.

Complete fiction.

1) Christ died as a ransom for all.
2) Babies in the womb has not done anything good or bad, yet were made "sinners."

 

[Brightfame52]

Complete fiction.

1) Christ died as a ransom for all.
2) Babies in the womb has not done anything good or bad, yet were made "sinners."

Only the non elect for whom Christ didn't die, and they are condemned not only for unbelief, but the law condemns them for every transgression they have sinned against it.

Those sinners Christ died for, are never condemned, Christ was charged with their condemnation, and discharged it for them

 

[Silverhair]

How can a "zygote" believe. No one can believe until they have heard the gospel, faith comes from hearing.

The person makes a rational choice to believe, thus before that they have not believed. Your view reads into the text what is not there.

The context of John 3:18 is the humanity was condemned already, because Jesus came to save the condemned.

People start out condemned and some never have the opportunity to believe. That is the biblical doctrine you deny.

You talk in circles Van. To quote you Van from post # 39 "Thus, at conception, we are condemned due to unbelief. John 3:18." So you say a zygote can hold the rational thought of unbelief? That is a very advanced zygote Van.

How can a zygote have unbelief? You cannot not believe in something you have never heard of.

People that had never heard of Christ could not have unbelief regarding Him as they did not even know that He existed. Once they heard the gospel message then their response was either belief or unbelief.

So are you saying we are all condemned because of Adam's sin? It would seem that is what you believe considering what you have posted.

 

[Brightfame52]

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This is salvation, the forgiveness of sins, simply through Christs Blood. Everyone Christ died for has this forgiveness while in unbelief.

Matt 26:28

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 2

 

[Van]

You talk in circles Van. To quote you Van from post # 39 "Thus, at conception, we are condemned due to unbelief. John 3:18." So you say a zygote can hold the rational thought of unbelief? That is a very advanced zygote Van.

How can a zygote have unbelief? You cannot not believe in something you have never heard of.

People that had never heard of Christ could not have unbelief regarding Him as they did not even know that He existed. Once they heard the gospel message then their response was either belief or unbelief.

So are you saying we are all condemned because of Adam's sin? It would seem that is what you believe considering what you have posted.

You are just repeating your position and not addressing my rebuttal. Did I say or suggest a zygote can hold rational thought? No, but you waste time with the absurdity. A person does not have unbelief, they lack belief.

It is unbiblical nonsense to say a person does not believe before he or she believes.

Yes, everybody not saved is condemned. Duh

 

[Van]

Only the non elect for whom Christ didn't die, and they are condemned not only for unbelief, but the law condemns them for every transgression they have sinned against it.

Those sinners Christ died for, are never condemned, Christ was charged with their condemnation, and discharged it for them

Unbiblical nonsense. Christ died as a ransom for all. He became the means of reconciliation for the whole of humanity, 1 John 2:2.