Is Unbelief a sin ?

[Van]

SNIP

So yes this post is just about you Van and your inability to address comments that point out the error of your views.

No one said or suggested "sin" is inherited. However the consequence of sin affects others, recall visiting the sins of the father on subsequent generations.
Every person is responsible for their own conduct, but not for their initial condition, depraved and separated from God.
I agree with the doctrine of an age of accountability, some people die before they become accountable. But they started out depraved and in a sinful separated from God state, and only belief in Christ provides the means of redemption when and if God credits that faith as righteousness.
The illustration of being like little children, refers to trusting fully and without reservation in Christ.
Again, no one said our human spirit was inherited from our parents, scripture says God forms our human spirit within us.
Clearly babies are conceived in a fallen state, i.e. made sinners, with a depraved or fallen nature.
No one said we were made sinners because of our mother's sin, scripture clearly says it was because of Adam's sin, alone.

 

[Silverhair]

No one said or suggested "sin" is inherited. However the consequence of sin affects others, recall visiting the sins of the father on subsequent generations.
Every person is responsible for their own conduct, but not for their initial condition, depraved and separated from God.
I agree with the doctrine of an age of accountability, some people die before they become accountable. But they started out depraved and in a sinful separated from God state, and only belief in Christ provides the means of redemption when and if God credits that faith as righteousness.
The illustration of being like little children, refers to trusting fully and without reservation in Christ.
Again, no one said our human spirit was inherited from our parents, scripture says God forms our human spirit within us.
Clearly babies are conceived in a fallen state, i.e. made sinners, with a depraved or fallen nature.
No one said we were made sinners because of our mother's sin, scripture clearly says it was because of Adam's sin, alone.

Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."

Could you show me where in these verses you see that we are guilty of Adam's sin. While we have inherited a sinful nature and also death from Adam we are guilty of his sin. We are judged for our own sins not our parents.

We suffer the consequences of Adam's sin:
1. spiritual death - Genesis 2:17; Isaiah 59:2; James 1:15
2. physical death - Genesis 3:4; Genesis 3:17
3. eternal death - Revelation 2:11; Revelation 20:6; Revelation 20:14

 

[Van]

Could you show me where in these verses you see that we are guilty of Adam's sin.

Good grief. Folks see post #70. This poster is simply engaged in obfuscation, not dialogue.

 

[Silverhair]

Good grief. Folks see post #70. This poster is simply engaged in obfuscation, not dialogue.

@Van why do you continue to ignore the obvious question that comes from your posts. How are we made sinners at conception or even through the sin of Adam?

You are more a calvinist than you seem to think as you keep parroting those views.

So I agree on one point. It is not possible to have a dialogue with you.

I do notice that you did not attempt to show me where in these verses
Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."

God tells us we are guilty of Adam's sin?

 

[Van]

@Van why do you continue to ignore the obvious question that comes from your posts. How are we made sinners at conception or even through the sin of Adam?

You are more a calvinist than you seem to think as you keep parroting those views.

So I agree on one point. It is not possible to have a dialogue with you.

I do notice that you did not attempt to show me where in these verses
Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat of it': "Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field.
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return."

God tells us we are guilty of Adam's sin?

Once again, incredibly, you disparage me, rather than address the topic. You ask "how are we made sinners?" Good Grief, God did it!!! Romans 5:19

Then you falsely claim Gen. 3:17:19 says humanity is guilty of Adam's sin. Nuff said

 

[Silverhair]

Once again, incredibly, you disparage me, rather than address the topic. You ask "how are we made sinners?" Good Grief, God did it!!! Romans 5:19

Then you falsely claim Gen. 3:17:19 says humanity is guilty of Adam's sin. Nuff said

I actually miss typed the question. It should have read "Does God say we are guilty of Adam's sin?". This is reference to the Gen 3:17-19 verses. No He does not. Man is only guilty of his own sins not those of his parents.

To quote you from post # 39 "But we are in a sinful state, separated from God as a consequence of Adam's sin. We were made "sinners.""
But it seems you do think we are guilty of Adam's sin or maybe not. It is confusing with what you write.

 

[Dave G]

So, Psalm's verse is about a baby formed in a sinful woman's belly not the child.

"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." ( Psalms 58:3 )?

Reading it carefully and bringing in what I understand about who the wicked are ( those that are not believers and even believers before their conversion ), I see that all of us are described in the above.
Every man, woman and child are sinful:

" as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" ( Romans 3:10 )

It's about the child.

 

[Silverhair]

"The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies." ( Psalms 58:3 )?

Reading it carefully and bringing in what I understand about who the wicked are ( those that are not believers and even believers before their conversion ), I see that all of us are described in the above.
Every man, woman and child are sinful:

" as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" ( Romans 3:10 )

It's about the child.

Question, how many babies do you know of that could speak at birth? How many babies do you know of that could sin at birth?

BTW having a sin nature is not the same as sinning.
Eze_18:20 No one is considered “sinful” on account of the sins of someone else.

God holds mankind accountable for the light they have. Would you not agree that a person would have to understand right from wrong before they can actually be held responsible for a sin?

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Man is only guilty of his own sins not those of his parents.

Except for the First Man Adam, His sin was the sin of mankind in Him, he was the Representative man for all his posterity in him so when he sinned, all men or people sinned This is basic Christianity Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

In adam all die 1 Cor 15:22


For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair



Except for the First Man Adam, His sin was the sin of mankind in Him, he was the Representative man for all his posterity in him so when he sinned, all men or people sinned This is basic Christianity Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

In adam all die 1 Cor 15:22


For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Perhaps you should just read the next verse.
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

And like you posted 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

The consequence of Adam's sin was clearly stated by God
Gen 3:17 Then to Adam He said, "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, 'You shall not eat from it'; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life.
Gen 3:18 "Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;
Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return."

What we do not see is that all those that follow will be guilty of his sin.

The consequence of Adam's sin was the first death, the punishment for our sin is the second death.

 

[Brightfame52]

@Silverhair

Perhaps you should just read the next verse.

I have, over the past 40 yrs, doesnt change anything. All men sinned in Adam

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair


I have, over the past 40 yrs, doesnt change anything. All men sinned in Adam

So you just ignore what God said to Adam. It seems you trust what some man told you rather than what God said.

 

[Brightfame52]

So you just ignore what God said to Adam. It seems you trust what some man told you rather than what God said.

Apparently you ignore Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[Silverhair]

Apparently you ignore Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

BF you are reading into the text words that are not there.
The text reads " death spread to all men, because all sinned;" but you read it as: death spread to all men, because all sinned; in Adam.

Why do you add the words "in Adam" to the text?

If you just read a few more verses then your error would have been clear up.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

By Adam's sin death came into the world just as we are told in Gen 3:19 "For dust you are, And to dust you shall return." Death is a consequence of Adam's sin.

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you are reading into the text words that are not there.
The text reads " death spread to all men, because all sinned;" but you read it as: death spread to all men, because all sinned; in Adam.

Why do you add the words "in Adam" to the text?

If you just read a few more verses then your error would have been clear up.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

By Adam's sin death came into the world just as we are told in Gen 3:19 "For dust you are, And to dust you shall return." Death is a consequence of Adam's sin.

Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

You always claiming you need scripture, here you have it and deny it.

 

[Silverhair]

Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

You always claiming you need scripture, here you have it and deny it.

BF you still did not answer why you have to add words to the text?

We all sin and are held responsible for our sins but we are not held responsible for the sins of others. So what have I denied?

By your adding the words "in Adam" to the text you are altering God's word to fit your man-made theology.

 

[Van]

I actually miss typed the question. It should have read "Does God say we are guilty of Adam's sin?". This is reference to the Gen 3:17-19 verses. No He does not. Man is only guilty of his own sins not those of his parents.

To quote you from post # 39 "But we are in a sinful state, separated from God as a consequence of Adam's sin. We were made "sinners.""
But it seems you do think we are guilty of Adam's sin or maybe not. It is confusing with what you write.

I specifically addressed whether or not in Post # 70. This is the second time you have misrepresented my position.

 

[Silverhair]

I specifically addressed whether or not in Post # 70. This is the second time you have misrepresented my position.

I quote you and you say I have misrepresented your position. Van do you not understanding what a quote means?

 

[Brightfame52]

BF you still did not answer why you have to add words to the text?

We all sin and are held responsible for our sins but we are not held responsible for the sins of others. So what have I denied?

By your adding the words "in Adam" to the text you are altering God's word to fit your man-made theology.

Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Believe scripture

 

[Silverhair]

Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Believe scripture

I actually believe what is written whereas you have to add words to the text to support your calvinist view. So the question for you is why do you not believe what the bible say in clear text?

BF you still did not answer why you have to add words to the text?