Is Unbelief a sin ?

[Brightfame52]

I actually believe what is written whereas you have to add words to the text to support your calvinist view. So the question for you is why do you not believe what the bible say in clear text?

BF you still did not answer why you have to add words to the text?

Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Believe scripture

 

[Silverhair]

Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Believe scripture

BF only a fool does or says the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

So you have no answer, no support for your addition to the text.

Rom 5:12 Therefore Διὰ . . . , τοῦτο just as ὥσπερ - ἡ sin ἁμαρτία entered εἰσῆλθεν, . . . εἰς the τὸν world κόσμον through δι’ one ἑνὸς man, ἀνθρώπου and καὶ - ὁ death θάνατος, through διὰ - τῆς sin, ἁμαρτίας so οὕτως also καὶ - ὁ death θάνατος was passed on διῆλθεν, to εἰς all πάντας men, ἀνθρώπους because ἐφ’ . . . ᾧ all πάντες sinned. ἥμαρτον·

Do you notice what you have added to the text "in ἐν Adam Ἀδὰμ"
Then the question is why do you do so?

 

[Dave G]

I actually believe what is written

Silverhair:
Would you please clarify what you mean when you claim to believe "what is written"?

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. " ( Ephesians 1:3-6 ). <--- Here I'm reminded of "....Though the works were finished from the foundation of the world" ( see Hebrews 4:3 ).

" Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region." ( Acts 13:46-49 ) <---Here I see both Israel's responsibility to believe, and God's work of election before the foundation of the world.


I also believe what is written, and it appears to me that what we're seeing and understanding are totally different...
At least in many areas.

I'm curious:
What do you see when you read the passages above, for example?

 

[Brightfame52]

BF only a fool does or says the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

So you have no answer, no support for your addition to the text.

Rom 5:12 Therefore Διὰ . . . , τοῦτο just as ὥσπερ - ἡ sin ἁμαρτία entered εἰσῆλθεν, . . . εἰς the τὸν world κόσμον through δι’ one ἑνὸς man, ἀνθρώπου and καὶ - ὁ death θάνατος, through διὰ - τῆς sin, ἁμαρτίας so οὕτως also καὶ - ὁ death θάνατος was passed on διῆλθεν, to εἰς all πάντας men, ἀνθρώπους because ἐφ’ . . . ᾧ all πάντες sinned. ἥμαρτον·

Do you notice what you have added to the text "in ἐν Adam Ἀδὰμ"
Then the question is why do you do so?

See post 89

Is Unbelief a sin ?

SNIP So yes this post is just about you Van and your inability to address comments that point out the error of your views. No one said or suggested "sin" is inherited. However the consequence of sin affects others, recall visiting the sins of the father on subsequent generations. Every person...

www.baptistboard.com

 

[Dave G]

See post 89

It seems he's not making the connection between the "as by one man sin entered into the world..." in Romans 5:12,
and what Paul said in the rest of chapter 5.

Also, what he said in 1 Corinthians 15:22:

" For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

"In Adam", spiritually speaking, all men are "dead"... Dead in trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2 ).
In Christ, all are "alive", spiritually speaking.

 

[Dave G]

Would you not agree that a person would have to understand right from wrong before they can actually be held responsible for a sin?

No, I do not.
To me, that's what many call, "the age of accountability", and I don't see it declared anywhere in the Scriptures.

In fact, I see many things that contradict what I was taught as a young believer, when I read God's word for myself.

 

[Silverhair]

Silverhair:
Would you please clarify what you mean when you claim to believe "what is written"?

" Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. " ( Ephesians 1:3-6 ). <--- Here I'm reminded of "....Though the works were finished from the foundation of the world" ( see Hebrews 4:3 ).

" Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49 And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region." ( Acts 13:46-49 ) <---Here I see both Israel's responsibility to believe, and God's work of election before the foundation of the world.


I also believe what is written, and it appears to me that what we're seeing and understanding are totally different...
At least in many areas.

I'm curious:
What do you see when you read the passages above?

I believe what is written in context not by picking out select verses that some think supports their view.

Those that will be saved are only saved when they are in Him {Christ Jesus}. To use these verses to support a view that says we were saved/chosen in eternity past contradicts Eph 1:13

Again context will show you what these verses teach us.
The Jews rejected the gospel message whereas some of the Gentiles accepted the good news and asked for Paul and Barnabas to tell them more. Those that were saved were those that had believe the message given.

Compare what we see in Acts and Ephesians with what we see in Rom 10:9 "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;"

Did God foreknow who would freely trust in Him? Of course, He is omniscient after all. But knowing who will trust is not causing someone to trust.

 

[Silverhair]

It seems he's not making the connection between the "as by one man sin entered into the world..." in Romans 5:12,
and what Paul said in the rest of chapter 5.

Also, what he said in 1 Corinthians 15:22:

" For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

"In Adam", spiritually speaking, all men are "dead"... Dead in trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2 ).

In Christ, all are "alive", spiritually speaking.

I did not say we were not spiritually separated from God. What I said is we are not guilty of Adam's sin which is what BF has posited.

It seems you are reading into the text what you need to find rather than trusting what the bible says.

 

[Dave G]

I believe what is written in context not by picking out select verses that some think supports their view.

Ok, what do you see in the words?

Those that will be saved are only saved when they are in Him {Christ Jesus}. To use these verses to support a view that says we were saved/chosen in eternity past contradicts Eph 1:13

You didn't answer the question, sir.
What do you see when you read it, line by line?

The Jews rejected the gospel message whereas some of the Gentiles accepted the good news and asked for Paul and Barnabas to tell them more. Those that were saved were those that had believe the message given.

It seems you missed the part where it says, " as many as were ordained to eternal life...believed."

Overall, I'd say that you didn't answer what I asked you, Silverhair.
I asked you what you saw when you read each passage.

 

[Dave G]

It seems you are reading into the text what you need to find rather than trusting what the bible says.

I trust what the Bible says, Silverhair.
All of it, not just a few "verses".

It seems to me that there's a whole lot you're not seeing.
How is that?

Please keep in mind that I'm not a "Calvinist", having never been taught how to understand God's word by men or institutions of men;
In fact, I was raised in IFB and IB churches for the first 28 years after I believed on Christ during the preaching of His word in 1978.

 

[Silverhair]

See post 89

Is Unbelief a sin ?

SNIP So yes this post is just about you Van and your inability to address comments that point out the error of your views. No one said or suggested "sin" is inherited. However the consequence of sin affects others, recall visiting the sins of the father on subsequent generations. Every person...

www.baptistboard.com

Still not addressing the reason you have added text to Rom 5:12.

 

[Silverhair]

I trust what the Bible says, Silverhair.
All of it, not just a few "verses".

It seems to me that there's a whole lot you're not seeing.
How is that?

It seems to me that you are adding a great deal to the text.

Why is that?

 

[Dave G]

It seems to me that you are adding a great deal to the text.

Why is that?

Please tell me how I'm adding to the text in Acts 13:48 ( for example ), by believing the words, " and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
It tells me why the ones who believed, did so.

What do the words say to you?

 

[Silverhair]

Ok, what do you see in the words?

You didn't answer the question, sir.
What do you see when you read it, line by line?

It seems you missed the part where it says, " as many as were ordained to eternal life...believed."

Overall, I'd say that you didn't answer what I asked you, Silverhair.
I asked you what you saw when you read each passage.

I did answer. You just do not like the answer.

But then again if you actually just pick out lines rather than reading scripture in context that may point to the errors you have in understanding what we are being told.

God has provided the means for all that trust in Him to be saved. If you do not see that then I can not help you.

Christ came that the whole world might be saved through Him. This flies in the face of some peoples theological view and causes them offense.

 

[Dave G]

Sir, I'm curious as to what you see when you read the passages I listed.
Please tell me what you see them saying, line by line if you will.

 

[Silverhair]

Please tell me how I'm adding to the text in Acts 13:48 ( for example ), by believing the words, " and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
It tells me why the ones who believed, did so.

What do the words say to you?

When you read verses out of context you will often come to a errant understanding of the message.

Read Acts 13:42-48 and it will help you understand what is being said. Paul presented the gospel message, some Jews rejected it some Jews and gentiles did not. Those that believed the message began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Those that believed were those that were saved.
Or do you think they had to be saved before they could believe. If so why bother preaching the gospel message at all?

When you pull verses out of context it leads to all sorts of problems and misunderstandings.

 

[Silverhair]

Sir, I'm curious as to what you see when you read the passages I listed.
Please tell me what you see them saying, line by line if you will.

Do you read things that way? Do you only read parts of a letter or book?

If you want to know what the author said you have to read what he wrote not just select words or lines.

Cherry picking verses is a terrible way to do bible study.

 

[Dave G]

Read Acts 13:42-48 and it will help you understand what is being said. Paul presented the gospel message, some Jews rejected it some Jews and gentiles did not. Those that believed the message began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord. Those that believed were those that were saved.

I did.
I clearly see that we're told why they believed:

"...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

So, the ones who believed are qualified by, " as many as were ordained to eternal life"....that is the context.
Are you telling me not to believe what's written?

 

[Dave G]

Do you read things that way?

Yes.
Just like a newspaper, I read it line by line, chapter by chapter...paying careful attention to what's written on the page.

Do you only read parts of a letter or book?

Of course not.
I read the whole thing, start to finish....

Again, paying careful attention to what is written, and in the context it's developed in.

 

[Dave G]

OK, since you seem unwilling to tell me what you see when you read the passages I've listed,
I'll do it on my end and we can compare notes, if you like.

I'll start with Ephesians 1 and go through to verse 12:

"Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2 grace [be] to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 that in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
11 in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 that we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ."