Is your church or pastor on the list?

[standingfirminChrist]

OK...maybe i spent more time studying evangelism and church growth more than theology in Seminary, but the last time i checked Scripture our faith in Christ should lead us to repentance (turning from sin).
Or maybe it's the Pepsi Max speaking...:laugh:

bobbyd,

Then what do we do with the verse that says, If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me"? Seems clear here the unsaved person who calls on the Lord to save him out of trouble but wants to continue in sin, the Lord won't hear that cry.

One must have a repentant heart even to come to Christ to be saved. Else the Word says that that heart is despised.

 

[carrierwave~]

Acts 2:38

.

Remember God repented in the Bible. The word repent by itself does not mean to "turn from sin" but to change the mind or thinking. "METANOEO" "METANOIA"

Acts 2:38, in context to Peter's preaching was they were to "change their minds" about Jesus. The Lord Jesus was deemed a blasphemer, a false prophet, an impostor. Peter told them to "change their there minds" about him. Remember those at Pentecost were the most holy and religious Jews and prostlytes gathered for the holy feast. These were the cream of the crop-- but they at Jerusalem had rejected Christ as Messiah, they were to repent of their unbelief and receive Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Peter was not telling them to stop personal sins like lying, stealing, cheating, adultery.

Carrierwave~

 

[carrierwave~]

Acts 3:19

Ron posted that one earlier.

Again, you must read the whole sermon Peter preached here. Peter accused them; "Ye men of Israel"... "Jesus whom ye delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate".

Also in verse 14, Peter puts the blame right on them for rejecting their own Messiah!

"But ye denied the Holy One and the Just,and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
Act 3:15 And the killed the Prince of life,"

Peter told them to reverse their sentance by "changing their minds" about what they had done to Jesus and believe on Him. If they did this they would have their sins blotted out and Christ would be established as Israel's Messiah. Their sin was rejecting Jesus Christ--unbelief. Peter told them to believe and be saved.

Carrierwave~

 

[mcdirector]

I've got others like Luke 13:3, but I can see we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[carrierwave~]

I've got others like Luke 13:3, but I can see we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

Luke 13:3 is not talking about salvation/eternal life. Trying compare a tower falling on men and them physically perishing :tonofbricks: with Jesus' statement; "But except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.", to mean eternal judgement is not logical. If you will read the parable of the unfruitful fig tree following it, it becomes clear that He is speaking about the future destruction of Jerusalem 70 A.D. because of Israel's self-righteousness and rejecting the Gospel. The national sin of Israel was self-righteousness, "we be of Abraham's seed and not sinners of the gentiles" John 8.

It is interesting that in the Book of John the word "repent", "repentance", or "repented" is not mentioned one time, yet the words, "believe", "believeth", believe in, believe on is stated nearly 100 times! The Holy Spirit says that the Book of John was specifically written to the unsaved:

John 20:31 "But these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name,"

Unbelievers are to repent of their unbelief in Christ, not from stopping some sins, or making empty promises to not walk in future sin before they are even saved; this is ubsurd! It is clear we are to repent and allow Christ to take care of our sin problem. Trying to add "turning from sins" to the clear plan of salvation is adding human effort. WORKS ARE NOT ALLOWED in the plan fo salvation. If you are thinking you must "turn from your sins" as a prequisite to being saved and going to Heaven, then you have not yet truly repented of your dead works. (Romans 11:6) (Hebrews 9:14)

After one is saved, being in Christ, are we to do good works and be conformed to Christ image. NOT BEFORE.

I realize we disagree, but I believe God! What about you?

God bless,

Carrierwave~

 

[mcdirector]

I realize we disagree, but I believe God! What about you?

God bless,

Carrierwave~

I beg your pardon?

 

[mcdirector]

I did go to look up verses on repentance, and found a notation in my Reformation Study Bible -- the one with Sproul as general editor --

Faith and repentance are themselves fruits of regeneration. But as a practical matter, repentance is inseparable from faith. Turning towards Christ in faith is impossible without turning away from sin in repentance. The idea that there can be saving faith without repentance and that one can be justified by embracing Christ as Savior while refusing Him as Lord is dangerous error. p.1603

I do not see that I am offbase in thinking that repentance goes hand in hand with salvation.
Acts 26:20

 

[TCGreek]

I did go to look up verses on repentance, and found a notation in my Reformation Study Bible -- the one with Sproul as general editor --

I seen it at the bookstore, but never thought about getting it. But should be fairly good, since Sproul is ge.

 

[mcdirector]

I seen it at the bookstore, but never thought about getting it. But should be fairly good, since Sproul is ge.

I have enjoyed using it. It is ESV and not NASB which I would have preferred.

 

[carrierwave~]

I did go to look up verses on repentance, and found a notation in my Reformation Study Bible -- the one with Sproul as general editor --



I do not see that I am offbase in thinking that repentance goes hand in hand with salvation.
Acts 26:20

What I have read of Sproul is confirmed by your quote is that he believes in Lordship Salvation. Peter commanding believers "grow in grace" proves this is an error. Jesus will never be totally Lord of our lives until we receive our glorified body.

"But to him that worketh not but believe on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

This verse alone tells us that salvation repentance does not involve works. The change of mind is in TRUST. What are you trusting in for salvation? There are really only two religions in the world-- self-righteousness or HIS righteousness. Falling on God's mercy because of our fallen nature is God's only remedy for sin.

Again, the word repent by itself does not mean "turn from sin". God repented, do we assume God now is a sinner? Of course not.

Carrierwave~

 

[Brother Bob]

Bitsy,

The Hylots use Acts 16:31 to show all one has to do to be saved is believe.

They fail to realize and understand that to "believe" truly, entails many things, like to Love the Lord, and He said if you love me you will keep my Commandments, which is to repent and be baptized.

Luk 13:3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

 

[carrierwave~]

They fail to realize and understand that to "believe" truly, entails many things, like to Love the Lord, and He said if you love me you will keep my Commandments, which is to repent and be baptized.

Luk 13:3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

The Commandments have no saving power. One need only to read Romans 3:10-28 which makes it clear that because we have already broken the Commandments we are disqualified from using them to be justified by. Our belief must be in God's righteousness and not our own.

Romans 3:20 makes it very clear- "Therefore by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in His sight."

To truly believe on Christ does not entail any works! Where do you get this? It is "faith" alone in what He has done on Calvary and His resurrection that justifies us. Romans 3:25 completely refutes any notion of our righteousness being included in believing to salvation. It is soley His righteousness!

Now if you are talking about the commands of Christ, Jesus was asked once in John 6:28 what must be done to do the works of God; The Lord Jesus' reply was: ..."This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent." (John 6:29) Can it be any clearer than this?

Carrierwave~

 

[Brother Bob]

The Commandments have no saving power. One need only to read Romans 3:10-28 which makes it clear that because we have already broken the Commandments we are disqualified from using them to be justified by. Our belief must be in God's righteousness and not our own.

No, Jesus is Salvation but according to Him they do matter.

Mar 10:17¶And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?


Mar 10:19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

I try to keep in mind what the Lord taught. You fail to realize that a person must repent to be saved and that means to turn from sin, not to it.

 

[abcgrad94]

If believing is all it takes then even the demons must be saved, because the Bible says that even the devils believe and tremble! They believe, but have no repentence.

 

[carrierwave~]

No, Jesus is Salvation but according to Him they do matter.

Mar 10:17¶And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?


Mar 10:19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

I try to keep in mind what the Lord taught. You fail to realize that a person must repent to be saved and that means to turn from sin, not to it.

Brother Bob,

You are totally misrepresenting what Jesus said to the rich young ruler. He was not giving the Gospel plan of salvation to this man! You also forgot to quote verse 18! In this verse Jesus said there is none good but one that is God. He was trying to show him he had not lived up to the standards of the Law and if he wants eternal life he will not find it in the Law! His god was his money. He had broken the very first Commandment. Again, the Law has NO SAVING POWER. (Romans 3:20)(Galatians 2:21) Galatians 3:24 says the Law is a School Master and shows us our NEED for cleansing through Christ Jesus. It only points out our sin and our NEED for Jesus Christ. Trying to keep it will only show a lack of understanding that you CAN NOT keep it (Romans 3:10-20) you are thumbing your nose at the Cross of Christ if you say you must keep it by "turning from your sins". This is what Cain did! He wanted his works to be part of his salvation. Abel brought only the perfect Lamb for a BLOOD sacrifice; a picture of Christ. Your false definition of the word "repent" is at the root of the disagreement.

I am wondering if the book of John, Romans, 1&II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Hebrews are cut out of some of your Bibles. These are the doctrinal books of Paul dealing directly with fine points of salvation. Not one place in these books are we told to "turn from sins" as a prerequisite for being saved. All we can do is acknowledge we ARE sinners (Romans 3:10) and fall on God's mercy through Christ's atonement in order to be saved. (Titus 3:5) Anything more than this is adding personal works of our own righteousness which are NOT ALLOWED.

Carrierwave~

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Psalmist wrote "a broken and contrite heart thou wilt not despise.' This must mean that the heart that is not broken, the heart that is not contrite, God will despise.

The heart that is broken is a heart that is repentant of sin, not one that hides his sin.

Proverbs 28:13He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.


A clear verse demanding repentance of sin if one wants mercy.

As I pointed out previously, the psalmist wrote that if one hides iniquity in ones heart, the LORD will not hear that one.

You can continue to believe what is on the blacklist site if you want, but the Word of God shows that one must have some repentance.

 

[annsni]

No one is saying that turning from sin is a PREREQUISITE to being saved - but goes hand-in-hand with the faith in Christ that saves us. If we have faith that Jesus died for us - what does it do for us? Nothing because, as someone pointed out, even the demons believe that Jesus died for the sins of mankind. I know many unsaved who believe that Jesus died for sins but have not turned their lives to Him. However, I DO think that it is the Father who draws us and in that drawing, awakens us to our sin and our complete unworthiness to be counted as a child of God - but that it's HIS gift to us that saves us AND we desire to turn from our sin at the same time. It's kind of like a child who's just born. They were born through the contractions and labor pains of their mother and they are now alive in this world - but in that, they also need to breathe to continue to grow. A child will not grow if they do not breathe - they will die. God gives us that desire to breathe and in breathing, we will continue to grow in Him - the breathing being our repentance and the beginning of our sanctification - a life-long process.

 

[carrierwave~]

If believing is all it takes then even the demons must be saved, because the Bible says that even the devils believe and tremble! They believe, but have no repentence.

The devils do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. However, James is talking about justification before men. We are justified in the eyes of God by our faith--Romans 4:1-9. But we are justified in the eyes of man by our works--James 2:18. James was saying the devils show they believe because they tremble. A Christian is commanded to show his belief by good works. This has nothing to do with going to Heaven. The word repentance or "turn from sins" is not mentioned anywhere in James 2. He was saying the devils show more evidence of belief in one God than some Christians do.

"Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father which is in Heaven." (Matthew 5:16)

Carrierwave~

 

[Brother Bob]

Brother Bob,

You are totally misrepresenting what Jesus said to the rich young ruler. He was not giving the Gospel plan of salvation to this man! You also forgot to quote verse 18! In this verse Jesus said there is none good but one that is God. He was trying to show him he had not lived up to the standards of the Law and if he wants eternal life he will not find it in the Law! His god was his money. He had broken the very first Commandment. Again, the Law has NO SAVING POWER. (Romans 3:20)(Galatians 2:21) Galatians 3:24 says the Law is a School Master and shows us our NEED for cleansing through Christ Jesus. It only points out our sin and our NEED for Jesus Christ. Trying to keep it will only show a lack of understanding that you CAN NOT keep it (Romans 3:10-20) you are thumbing your nose at the Cross of Christ if you say you must keep it by "turning from your sins". This is what Cain did! He wanted his works to be part of his salvation. Abel brought only the perfect Lamb for a BLOOD sacrifice; a picture of Christ. Your false definition of the word "repent" is at the root of the disagreement.

I am wondering if the book of John, Romans, 1&II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Hebrews are cut out of some of your Bibles. These are the doctrinal books of Paul dealing directly with fine points of salvation. Not one place in these books are we told to "turn from sins" as a prerequisite for being saved. All we can do is acknowledge we ARE sinners (Romans 3:10) and fall on God's mercy through Christ's atonement in order to be saved. (Titus 3:5) Anything more than this is adding personal works of our own righteousness which are NOT ALLOWED.

Carrierwave

Seems to me the Gospels may be cut out of your Bible. The young man first asked what must he do to have eternal life? Jesus began to tell him. I mean it was the Savior Himself, telling what it took to receive eternal life. You can't give eternal life, but Jesus can and was telling the young man what he needed to do. I will take the word of the Lord over man any day of the week. Don't you accept what Jesus taught??? You can't just take the scripture "believe" and thats it. You have to take all the scripture and believing entails repentance and its impossible to repent while killing someone.

Repentance is turning from sin, that means quit committing adultery, lying, stealing, killing, get it? Remember the young harlot they were going to stone. Jesus said, "go and sin no more". In other words do not commit adultery anymore.

Luk 13:3I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. (if you don't turn from it, you will perish)

I find it so hard to believe that so many spend so much time telling everyone how much sin he can keep doing and be saved, instead of telling him the truth and that is to lay down the things of the world, "cease to do evil and learn to do good". That is the story you should be telling men and women. Quit your meanness, serve the Lord. Tell you what, if you love the Lord, you will quit your meanness.

Is it "works" to keep your pants up or for once, not steal from your neighbor or covet his wife. People shove this "no works" thing way too far. It does not match up with the teachings of Jesus. You claim if you move your thumb, its works. We need to tell people to live a "good" life and not lie, steal, kill, covet your neighbors wife or worship a "cow".

 

[Tom Butler]

Let's look at Paul's sermon on Mars Hill in Athens (Acts 17:22 ff).

V. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all
men everywhere to repent.

V. 32 ...some mocked...

V. 34 Howbeit certain men clave unto Paul and believed.

Interesting. Paul called on them to repent. Their response? They believed.


Then we have 2 Corinthians 7:9 For godly sorrow produces repentance, leading to salvation.

And Mark 1:14, Jesus says Repent, and believe the gospel.