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Isaiah 14:12: Lucifer, Satan, Morning Star

loDebar

Well-Known Member
It is Lucifer in Isiah 14, IThe curse orbwarn8ngs degin in ch 13, These verses include future events, so it cannot be a man.

Morning star is also used for Jesus It has deeper meaning, It is got to be first light in the heavens or perhaps, original light of Heaven
Lucifer was light bearer. and Jesus is the light of the world. But DayStar is Jesus, the greatest light of Heaven represented by the Sun.

Angels are also called "stars:
 

Mr. Davis

Active Member
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Lucifer/Satan is the true king of Babylon (even now also, Babylon the Great).

Psalms 94:20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?

Revelation 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.​

Do not merely see humanity in the passage, as written:

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.​

Satan is even, ultimately (though not only, for there are symbols being used), the "king" in Revelation 9:11, etc.

Revelation 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.​

Notice:

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Daniel 1:2 And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god.

Daniel 3:13 Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. Then they brought these men before the king.

Daniel 3:19 Then was Nebuchadnezzar full of fury, and the form of his visage was changed against Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego: therefore he spake, and commanded that they should heat the furnace one seven times more than it was wont to be heated.

(Nebuchadnezzar was ultimately saved after this)
Daniel 5:23 But hast lifted up thyself against the Lord of heaven; and they have brought the vessels of his house before thee, and thou, and thy lords, thy wives, and thy concubines, have drunk wine in them; and thou hast praised the gods of silver, and gold, of brass, iron, wood, and stone, which see not, nor hear, nor know: and the God in whose hand thy breath is, and whose are all thy ways, hast thou not glorified:​
The Antichrist is a king, "prince," the Beast. Certainly, he is as Satan in human form. The writer of Hebrews talks about "entertaining angels unawares." Could the Antichrist be alive today, yet we are unaware of it?
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In the thread Apostates and Heretics behind the texts underlying modern translations, Sovereign Grace posted the following:

He and Yeshua1 discussed it briefly, but dropped it since it was not the topic of the post. I've started a thread for the discussion. Here are some translations of that verse in Isaiah 14:12

Isaiah 14:12 Wycliffe Bible A! Lucifer, that risedest early, how fellest thou down from heaven; thou that woundedest folks, felledest down altogether into the earth.
Isaiah 14:12 1599 Geneva Bible How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning? andcut down to the ground, which didst cast lots upon the nations?
Isaiah 14:12 King James Version How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:12 American Standard Version How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!
Jesaja 14:12 Luther Bibel 1545 Wie bist du vom Himmel gefallen, du schöner Morgenstern! Wie bist du zur Erde gefällt, der du die Heiden schwächtest!
Isaías 14:12 Reina-Valera Antigua: Cómo caiste del cielo, oh Lucero, hijo de la mañana! Cortado fuiste por tierra, tú que debilitabas las gentes.

I asked who was Lucifer on Twitter and someone gave this link...

http://www.tektonics.org/gk/heylucy.php

Quite useful, imo.
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Now, before someone suggests that some newer bible translations are corrupt for rendering "helel" as "morning star" in Isaiah, please remember the AV makers' footnote for it ..."Or, O day starre".

And remember what JESUS said in Rev. 2:28: "and i will give him the morning star". This certainly doesn't refer to Jesus Himself.
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
Now, before someone suggests that some newer bible translations are corrupt for rendering "helel" as "morning star" in Isaiah, please remember the AV makers' footnote for it ..."Or, O day starre".

And remember what JESUS said in Rev. 2:28: "and i will give him the morning star". This certainly doesn't refer to Jesus Himself.
IT does and may doesn't. The chapter speaks of Salvation to anyone. Jesus goes give Himself but probably more correct is. Knowledge of Himself
 

robycop3

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IT does and may doesn't. The chapter speaks of Salvation to anyone. Jesus goes give Himself but probably more correct is. Knowledge of Himself


I've never seen "morning star" used in Scripture as a symbol for "knowledge".
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
I've never seen "morning star" used in Scripture as a symbol for "knowledge".
Well , Rev 2 says "give morning star" to the saved. We have "
Rev 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

and Lucifer called "son of morning" Isaiah 14 12

Job 38:7
When the morning stars (angels) sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

so it has to mean "original light of heaven", or how Lucifer was before he sinned. maybe in accordance with God in a sinless relationship as how we are when saved
 

David Kent

Well-Known Member
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Yes, it is a Latin word, and comes into English from Latin. Jerome may have been the first to use "Lucifer" in a Bible translation -- couldn't say for sure -- but unless Roberts-Donaldson was "back-translating" Lucifer in Origen's writing, it was in use for this text a couple hundred years before Jerome's Vulgate.
We've been studying the book of Isaiah for about a year and a half (I think) in our adult Bible study. There seem to be plenty of "flips" in his prophecies that are mind-boggling to me. (I accept them as truth, just often don't understand them.)

In the context Lucifer can only refer to the king of Babylon. Ther are probably no 'flips' just people not reading the context. Like Jacob's trouble.
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
T
In the context Lucifer can only refer to the king of Babylon. Ther are probably no 'flips' just people not reading the context. Like Jacob's trouble.
The burden begins in Chapter 13 that includes future events a human King cannot know.
The day of the Lord has not occurred.
 

Rob_BW

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I believe that the King mentioned there was a type of Satan, as God used the terms for the earthly King to also describe satan pride and fall!
Or perhaps the author used language pertaining to commonly known (at the time) ANE mythology to describe the king and his actions/sins. Like today when we might describe a herculean effort or sisyphean task today and not bat an eye as to the etymology.
 
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loDebar

Well-Known Member

Was the King of Tyrus in the garden of Eden of God? Which was actually Heaven, notice the stones listed. The mountain of God is the hierarchicy of beings that Lucifer was responsible as an Archangel. Notice the difference between the prince of Tyrus and the King of Tryus. The writer takes the verses out of context and presents an error without context of others writings.
This is a limited weak study with false assumptions, explaining a desired end, rather than considering total as shown to understand results.

It is not about a man but the power behind evil rulers
 

loDebar

Well-Known Member
Or perhaps the author used language pertaining to commonly known (at the time) ANE mythology to describe the king and his actions/sins. Like today when we might describe a herculean effort or sisyphean task today and not bat an eye as to the etymology.

It was God's words prophesying judgement . Why would God use superlatives?
 

Rob_BW

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It was God's words prophesying judgement . Why would God use superlatives?
For the same reason He told His followers to be wise as serpents and yet as harmless as doves. It got the message across.
 
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