freeatlast
New Member
You mean sort of like date rape what does stop mean?
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Isaiah on the "Free Will" of the Unregenerate Man
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You mean sort of like date rape what does stop mean?
Getting a little sick there fal!
freeatlast
New Member
Good! you should feel sick for asking such a silly question. If someone says stop and you ask "what does that mean" and the bible says "whosever will let them take of the water of life freely" and you ask who is it speaking about! Well my friend that is equal to date rape. You have a hyper doctrine that causes you to reject the word of God and that is sad and should make you sick. :tear:Getting a little sick there fal!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Good! you should feel sick for asking such a silly question. If someone says stop and you ask "what does that mean" and the bible says "whosever will let them take of the water of life freely" and you ask who is it speaking about! Well my friend that is equal to date rape. You have a hyper doctrine that causes you to reject the word of God and that is sad and should make you sick. :tear:
I ask a simple question consistent with the Doctrines of Grace:
Originally Posted by OldRegular
The question is who are the "whosoevers"?
The answer: the "whosoevers" are the elect!
But you "fal" in your "self righteous free will" bring in the despicable comparison with date rape. Very sad!
quantumfaith
Active Member
I think all should just chillax. The date rape analogy was not in good taste, and neither is the phrase "self righteous free will".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-WwrL5jCSM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-WwrL5jCSM
freeatlast
New Member
I ask a simple question consistent with the Doctrines of Grace:
The answer: the "whosoevers" are the elect!
But you "fal" in your "self righteous free will" bring in the despicable comparison with date rape. Very sad!
No, "stop" means stop and "whoseover" means whosoever. Jesus Died for the sin of the world, not just a select few. You need to stop this date raping the scripture.
No, "stop" means stop and "whoseover" means whosoever. Jesus Died for the sin of the world, not just a select few. You need to stop this date raping the scripture.
the will of natural man, sinners, is to rebel against the lord, to disobey god, so God Himself has to change our will to agree with His will to have us saved!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I think all should just chillax. The date rape analogy was not in good taste, and neither is the phrase "self righteous free will".
You are correct!
freeatlast
New Member
the will of natural man, sinners, is to rebel against the lord, to disobey god, so God Himself has to change our will to agree with His will to have us saved!
It is true that a lost person’s natural state is to be in rebellion. However it is also true that we have the ability to make a choice to turn to God. The want to comes from hearing the word of God preached, or read. When we choose to repent, turn to God, we are to take that surrender and put it on His Son as our Lord/Master and faith is born and we are saved. Repentance and faith brings the grace of God into our lives. If there is no repentance then there is no faith and repentance is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. it is 100%.
It is true that a lost person’s natural state is to be in rebellion. However it is also true that we have the ability to make a choice to turn to God. The want to comes from hearing the word of God preached, or read. When we choose to repent, turn to God, we are to take that surrender and put it on His Son as our Lord/Master and faith is born and we are saved. Repentance and faith brings the grace of God into our lives. If there is no repentance then there is no faith and repentance is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. it is 100%.
By repentance, do you mean 'forsaking all known sin?"
freeatlast
New Member
By repentance, do you mean 'forsaking all known sin?"
It is not what I mean but what the word means in the context of the scriptures. The scriptures never use the word sin in relation to repenting in the NT since a lost pwerson has no ability to turn from sin prior to salvation. Turning from sin is the result of salvation brought on by repentence toward God and faiht in the Lord Jesus Christ. The scriptures says this;
Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Greek, metanoia= repentance
a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done
In the acts passage it is tied to God. So the person who has for their whole life done as they please without God is now repenting, turning to God. It is impossible to turn part way and be turned to God. The path is narrow and straight not broad and crooked. Repentance is not 50%, 75%, or 99%. It is 100% turning to God. The person is ready to get right with God no matter what it may cost them brought on by a broken heart because of hearing the gospel. Repentance/faith is done in spirit and seen in the walk because of salvation taking place. No repentance, no salvation.
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convicted1
Guest
By repentance, do you mean 'forsaking all known sin?"
Repentance is turning from one's own self for their righteousness, and turning to God for His righteousness.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Repentance is turning from one's own self for their righteousness, and turning to God for His righteousness.
Good point, convicted1, but which comes first, repentance or faith?
freeatlast
New Member
Good point, convicted1, but which comes first, repentance or faith?
The bible lists repentance first. Acts 20:21 and repentance is turning toward/to God. In other words the person comes with a spirit/heart ready to get right with God no matter what it may cost them.
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convicted1
Guest
Good point, convicted1, but which comes first, repentance or faith?
Actually, Godly sorrow starts before repentance, then repentance(2 Cor. 7:10). You won't turn to God before you have faith in Him. Why turn towards something w/o faith being there prior?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Actually, Godly sorrow starts before repentance, then repentance(2 Cor. 7:10). You won't turn to God before you have faith in Him. Why turn towards something w/o faith being there prior?
Well said! Now tell me where "Godly sorrow" came from!
freeatlast
New Member
The problem is that the passage is not dealing with the lost or salvation. That passage is dealing with sinning brothers. Lost people do not and cannot have godly sorrow. So in regards to the original question repentance comes first and then faith based on Acts 20:21Actually, Godly sorrow starts before repentance, then repentance(2 Cor. 7:10). You won't turn to God before you have faith in Him. Why turn towards something w/o faith being there prior?
convicted1
Guest
Well said! Now tell me where "Godly sorrow" came from!
The Godly sorrow comes from God drawing someone, when they realize that they have transgressed against a Holy God, or at least that's how it was with me. Just because I avow that man must be willing to submit to Him, does not usurp His authority in regards to Him saving people.
convicted1
Guest
The problem is that the passage is not dealing with the lost or salvation. That passage is dealing with sinning brothers. Lost people do not and cannot have godly sorrow. So in regards to the original question repentance comes first and then faith based on Acts 20:21
2 Cor. 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
According to this verse, which I used in a previous post, the Godly sorrow works a repentance to salvation. Sinners who have been saved, have had a Godly sorrow set up in their life prior to being saved; or at least that's how it was with me.
freeattlast said:The problem is that the passage is not dealing with the lost or salvation. That passage is dealing with sinning brothers. Lost people do not and cannot have godly sorrow. So in regards to the original question repentance comes first and then faith based on Acts 20:21
2 Cor. 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
According to this verse, which I used in a previous post, the Godly sorrow works a repentance to salvation. Sinners who have been saved, have had a Godly sorrow set up in their life prior to being saved; or at least that's how it was with me.
In balancing Scripture on the issue of godly sorrow we need remember that the unsaved person does not seek after God, nor is he capable of doing so (Rom. 3:10; 8:7; 1 Cor. 2:14). But yet, there is a godly sorrow that leads to repentance and salvation, that cannot be denied. As I have studied Scripture on the matter I see the hand of God at work stirring the sinner to that godly sorrow. I know some on this board get their knickers in a twist when regeneration before salvation is brought up, so I'll be careful how I word this without compromising my convictions as to what the Word says.
Salvation is not just the moment the sinner passes from death to life, but that is part of it. Salvation is the process by which God works in the sinner's life to bring them from death to life. That process begins with a recognition of sin (godly sorrow). The Calvinists on this board call that regeneration, whereby God enlightens the heart of the sinner to the truth just prior to their coming to faith in Christ. While that may be technically correct (and I personally believe it is), I think we cut the knife too thin when we dissect salvation into parts. We can't ignore the fact that the unsaved man hates God. Left to his own devices the unsaved man would never, and could never, choose God. Eph. 1:4, 5 introduces the "but God" factor. God is the one who acts first or else man would continue to wallow in sin like a pig in mud. Now, when God does take unilateral action in the heart of the sinner, He grants that sinner a window into his soul. The sinner sees his great sin and the fact that he stands under God's wrath. The vision produces a sorrow which leads the sinner to turn from that sin (repentance) and call on Christ.
So, I agree with my brother, convicted1, that godly sorrow must be present if salvation is to occur.
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