Islam as a whole teaches death or conversion of every non-muslim. Not all muslims hold to this view.
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"Islam helped shape America for the better"-Obama
- Thread starter canadyjd
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No one is disputing or disparaging the fact that he died in the service of this country as have so many other hundreds of thousands of Americans. We are grateful for his service as we are for all of our fallen. But one example is hardly a list of proof of your statement that American Muslims have done great things at every level of our society." And you were asked for a list of achievements and cannot provide it, apparently.
Your example certainly isn't proof of Obama's statement that islam has helped shape America for the better----that is just a blatant lie. Our nation was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, not the laws of sharia and islam. Our forefathers bled, died, and sacrificed for the Judeo-Christian God and did not have mohammed or allah in mind.
Unless you want to consider our first navy (Thomas Jefferson) was formed by fighting the muslim Barbary pirates from stealing and kidnapping from us. I guess in a round about way you could say islam helped the US form a navy and that was for the better.
Muslim apologists like Obama disregard those poor Armenians who suffered genocide at the hands of islam. Or all of the oppressed women who suffer under sharia law in Saudi Arabia and other islamic countries. Those poor women in burqas. The honor killings. The female genital mutiliations. The beheadings. The homicide bombers. The millions slaughered by the sword of islam. Yep, islam has sure helped shape the world for the better. Excuse me while I throw up.
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
You have hit the nail on the head.:thumbs: Obama has deliberately downplayed or denied the influence of Judeo-Christian values in shaping this country, while inventing from whole cloth a positive influence from Islam in shaping this country.
While on this trip, he also said that the United States was not a Christian country...or muslem...or Jewish..etc. While few Christians desire a theocracy, the historical roots and influence of Christianity on this nation can only be denied by the most cynical, God-haters among us.
His comments were a way to criticize and marginalize those who believe the founders of this country imbedded in the very fabric of the constitution Judeo-Christian values, including a candid assessment of fallen mankind.
That assessment recognized that men and governments must be vigorously prevented from exercising unchecked power over others.
Obama's speeches continue to make it harder and harder for me to give him the benefit of the doubt that he is wanting to do what is best for America.
peace to you
raying:I see it a little differently, he didn't downplay or denied the Judeo-Christian influence, he simply said others contributed also. And the anger he is receiving for pointing out that America is a melting pot of all nationalities and religions is an example of the arrogance he spoke of.
Keep in mind, some of our founding fathers didn't belong to any religion.
Before you ask I went and found you one... Ben Franklin was a deist... http://www.adherents.com/people/pf/Benjamin_Franklin.html
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Um, no. This ain't kindergarten. Enough has been posted to prove it. Remember Bush walking with that dude hand in hand ?
Why don't you disprove my words ?
No, it's like saying Christian American citizens and Christianity.
You may have stumbled on to something here.
If Islam is not a religion of peace but one that teaches conversion by violence then how do you separate that from individual Muslim persons?
Perhaps it has something to do with how closely they adhere to their faith's teachings.
Sort of the same with Christians that support abortion even if only by voting for a politician that advocates abortion or sees no problem with our tax dollars being used to perform abortions.
Some Christians are more true to their faith's teachings concerning abortion and others are less so. Some Muslims are perhaps also more true to their faith's teaching of conversion by violence and others are less so.
He specifically denied that we are a Christian nation. He downplayed our rich Judeo-Christian history in order to embrace islamists (Turkey). Benjamin Franklin is not the topic of this thread. Our sitting president's disdain for America's history in an attempt to embrace the tenets of islam (which are diametrically opposed to Judeo-Christian values) to the nations of the world is the topic of this thread.
You still have failed to provide a list. Obviously you don't have proof to back up your assertions on this topic.
And if anyone is arrogant on this subject, it is Obama. He disgusts me.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
We are not a Christian nation. We are a nation that is made up of a majority of Christians. People has a religion. Secular republics do not.
As for embracing Islam and denying that we are a "Christian Nation", seems to me, John Adams did the same thing. From the Treaty of Tripoli:
John Adams is not the topic of this thread. John Adams never bowed to a muslim king, either (Saudi Arabia).
For the first time in US history, a president has bowed in deference to a muslim king.
MP, your attempt to deny our Judeo-Christian heritage does not change the historical facts on which this nation was founded.
Perhaps you would like to help LB compile a list of all the ways islam has helped shape America for the better, as Obama has told the world.
For the first time in US history, a president has bowed in deference to a muslim king.
MP, your attempt to deny our Judeo-Christian heritage does not change the historical facts on which this nation was founded.
Perhaps you would like to help LB compile a list of all the ways islam has helped shape America for the better, as Obama has told the world.
Candy sez:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=58706
In light of this quote, see the following thread
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=58706
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Nothing has been posted to prove it. You made the statement. It is your burden to back it up or back down.
1. When did President Bush and O'bama rex walk hand in hand on the surge in Iraq?
2. When did President Bush and O'bama rex walk hand in hand in the War on Terror which O'bama rex has declared over??
3. When did President Bush lie about a former president, here or overseas?
4. When did President Bush put this country down, here or overseas?
5. When did President Bush suck up to the Europeans?
You have made a false accusation, either back up your charge or retract it.
Says who ?
Bush walked hand in hand with the same guy Obama is bowing to. Like it or not.
Just words. Obama has ended nothing.
Never said he did. I said he praised Islam, just like Obama is doing.
Never said he did. I said he praised Islam, just like Obama is doing.
When he wanted their help in the war on terror. Just like Obama is doing.
Baloney. L.E. said the same thing I did. I retract nothing.
Have a great day, O.R.
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Let me clarify with some facts. I can take the time to provide links later, but not now.
Bush did more (up until Obama) to promote islam in the United States than any other president up to him.
The first I noticed was after 09/11 when we had the Memorial Service in the National Cathedral. The Bush administration invited a mullah to say prayers to allah (a man who had known ties to terrorism and who was seen on video calling for the overthrow of the US). When that happened, I was stunned and decided to do some investigation of the ties between islam and Bush. I have posted those ties on this board many times.
Grover Norquist - google that name and islam and see what comes up.
Bush, when he was governor of Texas, actively endorsed and promoted the issuance of the islamic Eid stamp for the US postal service.
Bush, on several occasions, called islam a "peaceful religion" all the while getting daily intelligence briefings from numerous islamic attacks all over the world.
Bush stated several times that Christians, Jews, and muslims worship the same God.
Bush held yearly ramadan prayers and feasts in our White House (only Clinton had done that up until this point), allowing islamic leaders to bow to allah in the WH.
Bush had close ties with the Saudis, even being in business with them before being president.
The Bush family and bin Laden family had close ties in business with Carlisle.
The bin Laden family in Boston and scattered throughout the country were allowed to leave on private jets right after 09/11 when air space was closed down.
Bush helped create and institute along with the Quartet (UK, EU, and UN)the "Road Map from Hell" for Israel to create a two-state "solution."
Bush basically sold out Israel, forcing Sharon to go along with the plan under the threat of withholding loans and other US aid to Israel.
Bush helped create two islamic states - Iraq and Afghanistan - claiming they are democracies, except a true democracy cannot fluorish under islamic law.
The Bush administration was fiscally irresponsible with millions of dollars unaccounted for in Iraq.
The Bush administration bogged us down in a war that Iraq was not required to pay for or reimburse American tax payers for.
There are many others examples. But Bush never bowed to a muslim king, showing deference to islam over our own nation. Bush never bad-mouthed our country when he was abroad.
I lost respect for GW Bush as a hero after the mullah prayed to allah in our National Cathedral. As I dug into his relationship with muslims (and our enemies), I became more and more disillusioned until I could not vote for him in 2004.
Now this president is taking everything more than one step further - what Clinton and Bush began, Obama is sending us over the edge, and we will pay a heavy price as our enemies overcome us because of our fear of islam and our leader's/world fear of islam. They have infiltrated our countries in Europe and the rest of the West and will eventually take over with the help of our leaders and the Politically Stupid Correctness as they seek world dominance.
Bush did more (up until Obama) to promote islam in the United States than any other president up to him.
The first I noticed was after 09/11 when we had the Memorial Service in the National Cathedral. The Bush administration invited a mullah to say prayers to allah (a man who had known ties to terrorism and who was seen on video calling for the overthrow of the US). When that happened, I was stunned and decided to do some investigation of the ties between islam and Bush. I have posted those ties on this board many times.
Grover Norquist - google that name and islam and see what comes up.
Bush, when he was governor of Texas, actively endorsed and promoted the issuance of the islamic Eid stamp for the US postal service.
Bush, on several occasions, called islam a "peaceful religion" all the while getting daily intelligence briefings from numerous islamic attacks all over the world.
Bush stated several times that Christians, Jews, and muslims worship the same God.
Bush held yearly ramadan prayers and feasts in our White House (only Clinton had done that up until this point), allowing islamic leaders to bow to allah in the WH.
Bush had close ties with the Saudis, even being in business with them before being president.
The Bush family and bin Laden family had close ties in business with Carlisle.
The bin Laden family in Boston and scattered throughout the country were allowed to leave on private jets right after 09/11 when air space was closed down.
Bush helped create and institute along with the Quartet (UK, EU, and UN)the "Road Map from Hell" for Israel to create a two-state "solution."
Bush basically sold out Israel, forcing Sharon to go along with the plan under the threat of withholding loans and other US aid to Israel.
Bush helped create two islamic states - Iraq and Afghanistan - claiming they are democracies, except a true democracy cannot fluorish under islamic law.
The Bush administration was fiscally irresponsible with millions of dollars unaccounted for in Iraq.
The Bush administration bogged us down in a war that Iraq was not required to pay for or reimburse American tax payers for.
There are many others examples. But Bush never bowed to a muslim king, showing deference to islam over our own nation. Bush never bad-mouthed our country when he was abroad.
I lost respect for GW Bush as a hero after the mullah prayed to allah in our National Cathedral. As I dug into his relationship with muslims (and our enemies), I became more and more disillusioned until I could not vote for him in 2004.
Now this president is taking everything more than one step further - what Clinton and Bush began, Obama is sending us over the edge, and we will pay a heavy price as our enemies overcome us because of our fear of islam and our leader's/world fear of islam. They have infiltrated our countries in Europe and the rest of the West and will eventually take over with the help of our leaders and the Politically Stupid Correctness as they seek world dominance.
A couple of more things I want to add:
Under the Bush State Department, (and in agreements made with the UN), more muslims were dumped into our country in various cities and towns than any other administration up until then.
Because of the generosity towards muslims during the Bush era after 09/11, islamists became embolded in our own country, more Wahhabi mosques (from Saudi Arabia) were opened at record-breaking speed, children in public schools have been indoctrinated with a false history of islam, foot basins have been put in airports, middle eastern studies (and their various groups) in US colleges and universities have fluorished, a town is Michigan now has calls to prayers bleeping out at prayer times over a loud speaker, companies have been forced (via lawsuits) to allow muslim employees to have time off for prayer during the work day, schools are granting muslims time off for ramadan, medical treatment has conformed in some hospital to accommodate muslim patients, and more.
But....but....we have never had another attack on US soil during the past 8 years. Will we be able to say that 6 months from now or a year from now under the present administration which bows before muslim kings and whom the Ayatollah praises? We are sheeple, shades of Mr. Chamberlain, for those who know history, appeasement never works.
Under the Bush State Department, (and in agreements made with the UN), more muslims were dumped into our country in various cities and towns than any other administration up until then.
Because of the generosity towards muslims during the Bush era after 09/11, islamists became embolded in our own country, more Wahhabi mosques (from Saudi Arabia) were opened at record-breaking speed, children in public schools have been indoctrinated with a false history of islam, foot basins have been put in airports, middle eastern studies (and their various groups) in US colleges and universities have fluorished, a town is Michigan now has calls to prayers bleeping out at prayer times over a loud speaker, companies have been forced (via lawsuits) to allow muslim employees to have time off for prayer during the work day, schools are granting muslims time off for ramadan, medical treatment has conformed in some hospital to accommodate muslim patients, and more.
But....but....we have never had another attack on US soil during the past 8 years. Will we be able to say that 6 months from now or a year from now under the present administration which bows before muslim kings and whom the Ayatollah praises? We are sheeple, shades of Mr. Chamberlain, for those who know history, appeasement never works.
Also, I wonder if the same people who supported Bush's Patriot Act are going to be the first to complain about Obama's intrusion into our private lives, via thermostat control, etc.....
And I wonder if some of the folks who complained about the Patriot Act are OK with thermostat control.
I know it's an O/T paranoid conspiracy rant, but I'm just wondering.
And I wonder if some of the folks who complained about the Patriot Act are OK with thermostat control.
I know it's an O/T paranoid conspiracy rant, but I'm just wondering.
Yep,the two are not even close to the same thing. Under the patriot act if you are not a terrorist or conspiring with a terrorist then it doesn't apply to you.
Under the thermo control it is forced limits on our usage. Government intrudes on our private lives in quite a few ways already established. Telling me when I can and cannot use my air is out of control.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
How about a short list, you know 20-30 great things they have done for this country?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Bro. Curtis
Your posts put you and JC in the same class. You dump on President Bush just like JC but that is all.
Your posts put you and JC in the same class. You dump on President Bush just like JC but that is all.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Rant on! and on! and on!
Not really, violence come from an extreme interpretation the radical Muslim have of the teachings. Not all Muslims interpret the teachings in such extreme views and those who do are encouraged not to read the actual Qur'an. They study from literature that is "derived" from the teachings in the Qur'an.
Majority of Muslims are not violent and are just as appalled by the extremist as we are. In fact they are more appalled because it is causing the world to look negatively on them even though they are innocent.
Your statement regarding abortion are unfair since rebuttal is not accepted on this board. It's like throwing a rock knowing no one can thrown one back at you. Why do you chose to attack defenseless people?
I will add that your interpretation of scripture and abortion would be right if murder was the only command we received from God. But since God gave us many commands in addition to "thou shalt not kill" then it is really impossible for a Christian to support any political candidate without being contrary to scripture. God also doesn't have a ranking for sin so the attitude that one sin trumps another is distorting the views of our Lord and Savior. There is a sin unto death and then there are sins.
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