1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Jesus taught against the physical millennial Kingdom the Jews looked for. That is in part why they killed him.
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Israel and the Fig Tree
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
robycop3,
The 'layout', and design, for Interpreting Revelation, is a different Herminutic than 'Chonologically' reading Revelation though, from Chapter to Chapter, and attempting to establish a 'sequence' of events.
( 9.1 ) Section 1: REVELATION 1:1 – 3:22 / “JESUS CHRIST in the MIDST of the LAMP-STANDS” The First of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 1:1 – 3:22.
( 9.2 ) Section 2: REVELATION 4:1 – 7:17 / “The VISION of HEAVEN and the SEALS” The Second of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 4:1 – 7:17.
( 9.3 ) Section 3: REVELATION 8:1 – 11:19 / “The SEVEN TRUMPETS” The Third of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 8:1 – 11:19.
( 9.4 ) Section 4: REVELATION 12:1 – 14:20 / “The PERSECUTING DRAGON” The Fourth of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 12:1 – 14:20.
( 9.5 ) Section 5: REVELATION 15:1 – 16:21 / “The SEVEN BOWLS” The Fifth of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 15:1 – 16:21.
( 9.6 ) Section 6: REVELATION 17:1 – 19:21 / “The FALL of BABYLON” The Sixth of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 17:1 – 19:21.
( 9.7 ) Section 7: REVELATION 20:1 – 22:21 / “The GREAT CONSUMMATION” The Seventh of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 20:1 – 22:21.
The principal determinate for the logical distinction for the 'layout' of this Herminutic, is the Revelation God has Given of, The First Advent of Jesus' First Coming to Earth, being Recorded in most every 'division of Chapters' into seven 'sections' , along with The End of Jesus' First Advent, with His Ascention,
And the Revelation of The Final Coming of Jesus, in Judgment, that is generally Recorded, or implied toward the end of each of these seven 'sections', which contain a few Chapters, each.
So, the entire Age of Jesus'churches, our Current New Testament Era, from Jesus' First Advent and Ascention, UNTIL He Comes Again, in FINAL JUDGMENT, is........
Revealed, by God, in EACH OF THOSE SEVEN SECTIONS.
Each of those seven sections noted Covers the ENTIRE INNER-ADVENTAL AGE, of what seems 'forever', and Neverending, for a 'thousand years, BUT,...
THIS AGE IS FINITE.
This is The Last Time.
Today IS "The Day of Salvation" and The Acceptable Year of The Lord.
When Jesus Comes, it is The Day of Vengence of our God.
Each of those seven sections run parellel to oneanother and cover The Current One Thousand Year Spiritual Reign of Jesus Over every page of History and His churches and Kingdom on Earth.
In Isaiah, these same Periods that God Reveals in Revelation were only 'covered by our English comma', in The KJV.
Isaiah 61:2; "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our GOD..."
SEE THAT 'COMMA'?
EACH of the seven sections that I listed can be placed into that 'comma'.
EACH of those divisions cover the SAME TIME PERIOD.
The Period we are in, before Jesus Returns.
So, we are DEEPLY BLESSED, as John says in Chapter 1.
The 'layout', and design, for Interpreting Revelation, is a different Herminutic than 'Chonologically' reading Revelation though, from Chapter to Chapter, and attempting to establish a 'sequence' of events.
( 9.1 ) Section 1: REVELATION 1:1 – 3:22 / “JESUS CHRIST in the MIDST of the LAMP-STANDS” The First of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 1:1 – 3:22.
( 9.2 ) Section 2: REVELATION 4:1 – 7:17 / “The VISION of HEAVEN and the SEALS” The Second of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 4:1 – 7:17.
( 9.3 ) Section 3: REVELATION 8:1 – 11:19 / “The SEVEN TRUMPETS” The Third of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 8:1 – 11:19.
( 9.4 ) Section 4: REVELATION 12:1 – 14:20 / “The PERSECUTING DRAGON” The Fourth of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 12:1 – 14:20.
( 9.5 ) Section 5: REVELATION 15:1 – 16:21 / “The SEVEN BOWLS” The Fifth of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 15:1 – 16:21.
( 9.6 ) Section 6: REVELATION 17:1 – 19:21 / “The FALL of BABYLON” The Sixth of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 17:1 – 19:21.
( 9.7 ) Section 7: REVELATION 20:1 – 22:21 / “The GREAT CONSUMMATION” The Seventh of Seven Sections in THE REVELATION 20:1 – 22:21.
The principal determinate for the logical distinction for the 'layout' of this Herminutic, is the Revelation God has Given of, The First Advent of Jesus' First Coming to Earth, being Recorded in most every 'division of Chapters' into seven 'sections' , along with The End of Jesus' First Advent, with His Ascention,
And the Revelation of The Final Coming of Jesus, in Judgment, that is generally Recorded, or implied toward the end of each of these seven 'sections', which contain a few Chapters, each.
So, the entire Age of Jesus'churches, our Current New Testament Era, from Jesus' First Advent and Ascention, UNTIL He Comes Again, in FINAL JUDGMENT, is........
Revealed, by God, in EACH OF THOSE SEVEN SECTIONS.
Each of those seven sections noted Covers the ENTIRE INNER-ADVENTAL AGE, of what seems 'forever', and Neverending, for a 'thousand years, BUT,...
THIS AGE IS FINITE.
This is The Last Time.
Today IS "The Day of Salvation" and The Acceptable Year of The Lord.
When Jesus Comes, it is The Day of Vengence of our God.
Each of those seven sections run parellel to oneanother and cover The Current One Thousand Year Spiritual Reign of Jesus Over every page of History and His churches and Kingdom on Earth.
In Isaiah, these same Periods that God Reveals in Revelation were only 'covered by our English comma', in The KJV.
Isaiah 61:2; "To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our GOD..."
SEE THAT 'COMMA'?
EACH of the seven sections that I listed can be placed into that 'comma'.
EACH of those divisions cover the SAME TIME PERIOD.
The Period we are in, before Jesus Returns.
So, we are DEEPLY BLESSED, as John says in Chapter 1.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
…
JESUS’ RETURN
IS THE END OF THE WORLD.
…
In Romans 8:19-23 we see that
JESUS CHRIST’S RETURN
( Parousίa )
also Signals
The ‘Resurrection’ of the Cosmos
or
The ‘Re-Creation’ of the Cosmos
into
The New Heavens and The New Earth.
…
“For the earnest expectation
of the creature waits
for the Manifestation
of the sons of God.
…
“Because the creature
was made subject to vanity,
not willingly,
but by reason of him
who hath subjected
the same in hope,
…
“Because the creature itself
also, Will be Delivered
from the bondage of corruption
into the Glorious Liberty
of the children of God.
…
“Because we know
that the Whole Creation
groans and travails in pain
together until now.
…
“And not only they,
but ourselves also, which have
the first fruits of the Spirit,
even we ourselves
groan within ourselves,
waiting for the adoption,
to wit,
the Redemption of our body.”
…
In other words,
Jesus Christ’s Second Coming
Encompasses:
1. His Return in Glory,
2. The Destruction of His enemies
3. The Resurrection of the Righteous
and
4. The Resurrection of the Wicked,
5. The Destruction of the Cosmos by Fire,
and
The Recreation of the Cosmos
into
6. The New Heavens
and
7. The New Earth.
I did not read this thread, so if this is redundant, please accept my apology.
"This generation" can refer to the present day audience at the time the phrase was used. But the phrase is often used to refer to humans in general because we are fallen, wicked, evil, perverse, and so forth.
See Matthew 12:45, Mark 8:38, and Acts of the Apostles 2:40.
With this in mind, the idea is the return is imminent, and could happen tonight or tomorrow. We need to be prepared.
"This generation" can refer to the present day audience at the time the phrase was used. But the phrase is often used to refer to humans in general because we are fallen, wicked, evil, perverse, and so forth.
See Matthew 12:45, Mark 8:38, and Acts of the Apostles 2:40.
With this in mind, the idea is the return is imminent, and could happen tonight or tomorrow. We need to be prepared.
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
An example from the first of seven sections I listed that are in Revelation, which are THE SEVEN VISIONS of REVELATION,
the following links show
1.) The First Advent of Jesus, when He Washed us in His Own Blood,
Being Washed in Jesus Christ’s Blood is The Supreme Manifestation of GOD’S LOVE.
And 2.) The Second Advent of Jesus in Judgment upon the lost World, at The End of Time.
Both are mentioned in the first section, as they both are generally mentioned in each of the other six sections, in Revelation, which defines them, as depicting events that take place during the Period between Jesus' First and Second Advent = NOW.
It is for that reason that Revelation IS THE MOST PRACTICAL BOOK IN THE BIBLE.
REVELATION APPLIES DIRECTLY TO US, NOW.
the following links show
1.) The First Advent of Jesus, when He Washed us in His Own Blood,
Being Washed in Jesus Christ’s Blood is The Supreme Manifestation of GOD’S LOVE.
And 2.) The Second Advent of Jesus in Judgment upon the lost World, at The End of Time.
Both are mentioned in the first section, as they both are generally mentioned in each of the other six sections, in Revelation, which defines them, as depicting events that take place during the Period between Jesus' First and Second Advent = NOW.
It is for that reason that Revelation IS THE MOST PRACTICAL BOOK IN THE BIBLE.
REVELATION APPLIES DIRECTLY TO US, NOW.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I disagree, Dave.
It's also one of the main points that I disagree with those that are "Reformed", as well as "Reformed Baptist".
I don't agree with a-millenialism, and I never have.
I believe that Christ taught a literal, physical kingdom ( Revelation 20:6 ), otherwise His disciples would not have asked Him about it ( Acts of the Apostles 1:6 )
Allegorizing it like most "Reformed" do, does not address the fact that He said that we, as believers, will rule and reign with Him for 1,000 years ( 2 Timothy 2:12, Revelation 20:6 ).
To me, that 1,000 years is literal, not figurative.
He promises to give believers power over the nations ( Revelation 2:26-27 ).
He promises to make them rulers over the nations ( 1 Corinthians 6:2-3 ).
As there is no rule from Jerusalem right now and Christ is seated on the right hand of the Father, I look for Him to come at the end of the Tribulation ( Matthew 24:29-31 ), gather His saints when He is coming down, and establish Himself as King over the earth for that period.
In other words, the throne of David is not in Heaven, it is in Jerusalem.
After Hebron, it has always been in Jerusalem.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Consider this before accepting the physical kingdom (zero scripture support) view.
“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)
“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)
“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)
“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)
“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)
“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)
“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)
“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
Isn't that just simply, flat out, astounding that Satan could rob the bulk of The New Testament, along with all these verses, and most of The Old Testament, from our men and have them just skip all of these verses and most all others, as if they have No meaning or Application, at all??????
To me, these, 'put your elbow on a closed Bible and explain to people the way it is' stuff is a consent to defeat and an admission of, "I don't really know what The Bible Teaches about The Last Times."
Looking for a 'sequence of events', while reading Revelation straight through, or just reading Scofilds notes, or listening to J. Vernon McKee, etc., might bring someone to these bazaar, extra Biblical, 'appointments to be The Governor of their State' , but it's not able to be Taught.
It's not in there.
Only people's heads ( and Reference Bible 'notes').
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Alan Gross
Well-Known Member
It's a deal, as to whether we Preach to Jewish people we know, or have sent a track, or Missionary to Israel.
Do we? Have we? Will we?
Why, or why not?
1.0.3b The Gospel of The Kingdom #1; 20th Century ‘Dispensationalism’ is practically identical to LOST 1st Century JEWS who CRUCIFIED JESUS
"This generation" can refer to the present day audience at the time the phrase was used. But the phrase is often used to refer to humans in general because we are fallen, wicked, evil, perverse, and so forth.
See Matthew 12:45, Mark 8:38, and Acts of the Apostles 2:40.
With this in mind, the idea is the return is imminent, and could happen tonight or tomorrow. We need to be prepared.
See Matthew 12:45, Mark 8:38, and Acts of the Apostles 2:40.
With this in mind, the idea is the return is imminent, and could happen tonight or tomorrow. We need to be prepared.
He taught against it's being there AT THAT TIME. Jesus NEVER said it wouldn't be here at all. Revelation plainly says it WILL BE.
Don'tcha know who "the elect" are?
When we elect a new POTUS, that person is the "POTUS-elect" until sworn into office. Thusly, we are "citizens-elect" of the KOG. When it's physically here, as Revelation says it will be, we will reign with Jesus in it.
How can you deny the KOG will physically be here in the face of the words of the Revelation? That stinx of apostasy to me. The wording is plain that it WILL be, in every valid Bible version. from the old, obsolete KJV to the newest translation.
YOU ARE SIMPLY WRONG ! !
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:
“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)
“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)
“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)
“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)
“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)
“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)
“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)
“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)
“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)
“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)
“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)
“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)
“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You are contradicting Jesus' description of the kingdom being spiritual only. And I must ask, are you adding to Revelation by forcing a physical kingdom into Revelation 20?
I view preterism as heretical teaching.
I give no place to it, nor do I sit with teachers of that view.
That some supposedly knowledgeable inTheology actually lack discernment in agreeing with it just displays the cunning trickery and hold of deceit the believer may drift into.
No preterist takes the final chapters of Revelation nor the OT prophecies as other than “fanciful musings from those demented and brain damaged” (a quote from a recent conversation with a local preterist theological professor).
I give no place to it, nor do I sit with teachers of that view.
That some supposedly knowledgeable inTheology actually lack discernment in agreeing with it just displays the cunning trickery and hold of deceit the believer may drift into.
No preterist takes the final chapters of Revelation nor the OT prophecies as other than “fanciful musings from those demented and brain damaged” (a quote from a recent conversation with a local preterist theological professor).
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Are there any "Preterists" that you know of posting here?
There are a number of double entities to consider -
- The descendants of Abraham - believers in the LORD & those who did not believe, both scattered among the Gentiles, believers uniting with believing Gentiles to form the Church of Jesus Christ.
- The Jews of the first century - Jewish leaders who rejected Jesus & Jewish people who received John's baptism & followed Jesus.
- Jews including some Gentiles who welcomed Jesus into Jerusalem & those who rejected him & demanded his death.
- Jews & Proselytes who welcomed the Apostolic Gospel from Pentecost onwards & those who rejected the Gospel & persecuted the Christians.
- Religious Jews who respect the Torah, who are concerned for justice for the Palestinian people & godless Jews who focus on the state of Israel.
- Christians who believe that the Gospel has always been open & free to Jews (and of course to all sinners of all nations) & Christians who believe that the Jews have been excluded from the Gospel until Jesus returns for rapture/tribulation/millennium etc.
The single scheme that is not ultimately racist and biased against Jews, Muslims, Hispanics, whites, blacks, Asians .... is - the Christian Gospel - there is no respect of persons with God.
2 Chr. 19:7 Wherefore now let the fear of the LORD be upon you; take heed and do it: for there is no iniquity with the LORD our God, nor respect of persons, nor taking of gifts.
Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Sir, I strongly recommend you read the Revelation CLOSELY, beginning with Ch. 1 !!
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