Israel and the Fig Tree

[Roy]

28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Many Bible scholars use the above scripture as proof positive that our Lord will return within a generation of the year 1948, the year of modern Israel's founding. I am not sure exactly just how many years are in a generation, but we are now 71 years past 1948.

Could the years of a generation possibly be 120 years, based on God's word to Noah following the flood? Also, are scholars correct in assuming that the Lord will return within a generation of the founding of modern-day Israel?

 

[Dave G]

Many Bible scholars use the above scripture as proof positive that our Lord will return within a generation of the year 1948, the year of modern Israel's founding.

I think that men attempting to predict when Christ will return has been frustrated far too many times.
I could name many teachers and modern day "prophets" that have tried to set dates about it...from William Miller to Harold Camping.

I also think that no matter how hard scholars may try, they won't be able to do it, because...
" But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." ( Matthew 24:36 )

Could the years of a generation possibly be 120 years, based on God's word to Noah following the flood?

I believe that a "generation" is around 40-60 years.
I base that on the 40 years that Israel wandered in the wilderness.

Also, are scholars correct in assuming that the Lord will return within a generation of the founding of modern-day Israel?

That's hard to say, but I tend to agree with some of them, to an extent.

In the parable of the fig tree, I see Matthew 24:32-35 referring to Christ's coming again according to the signs listed in the previous verses ( Matthew 24:3-31 ), which includes quite a bit of detail.
Some of this I understand to include Israel being re-inhabited by the descendants of Jacob, who have been scattered among the nations since 70 A.D.

I also see Ezekiel 36 ( and others ) predicting that the land of Israel, once dead and the habitation of wild animals and owls ( Isaiah 34 ), will come alive again some time before the Lord's return... and that the "Israel" of that time will see Jesus and mourn for the things they have done to Him.

So, In the broad sense I see many of the end time prophecies about Israel beginning to come to pass.

How long is a generation?

If a generation is 40 years, then based on scholars' predictions, it ended in 1988.
If 120 years, then it will end in 2068....

That's IF the scholars are right about the "budding of the fig tree" starting in 1948.

Personally, I think that His coming is very close...within the next 20-30 years, which puts it within the time frame of 1948 to 2068.
But that's just my own, private prediction.

 

[Alan Gross]

I find these verses to Open and Give the Answers, by Jesus, to the questions asked to Him, by His Disciples.

There were 3 questions that they asked and the verses 28-31 that have been posted give partial Answers, by Jesus, to the second two.

Before looking back at the 3 questions the disciples ask Jesus, PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR EAR.

IF, IF, IF, IF, IF:

if you are Enabled by The Holy Spirit to see and "make the division" in the Answers Jesus Gives, YOU WILL SEE HEAVEN OPEN and JESUS COMING AGAIN.

Only, not in The Fashion stated in this chapter.

Anyway. This is A GLORIOUS PASSAGE.

Please, find all the commentators, through the Centuries, that Royally screw it into a knot and give me a nickle for each one, so I can buy a new car and home on a large spread of land, with a lake or two on it.

The first several verses posted refer to the second question that was asked Jesus.

They are '28 to 30'.

And 28 to 30 is just the last part of Jesus'Answer, to the second question.

Please, everyone:

I will make you a promise.

If, IF, IF, you would like to Know that you Know and THAT YOU KNOW THAT GOD KNOWS THAT YOU KNOW what this Passage means

AND, AND, AND,

Would like to be able to Deal with Daniel 7 & 9, and Revelation 20, ( and the whole book of Revelation and all of Prophecy and other Parables, and The Kingdom of God in The Old Testament, New Testament, and, the Future Kingdom of the FATHER) ?

Then, this Passage HAS IT IN IT.

I will wait, now, until you spend the weekend on your knees begging God for the understanding.

See you, soon!

 

[Revmitchell]

28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Many Bible scholars use the above scripture as proof positive that our Lord will return within a generation of the year 1948, the year of modern Israel's founding. I am not sure exactly just how many years are in a generation, but we are now 71 years past 1948.

Could the years of a generation possibly be 120 years, based on God's word to Noah following the flood? Also, are scholars correct in assuming that the Lord will return within a generation of the founding of modern-day Israel?

You need to study the use of the word "Generation". It does not always include a time frame.

 

[agedman]

Do the Scriptures place emphasis upon the land or upon Jerusalem?

The 1948 may be the tree planting, but perhaps the budding really began in 1967 when the city came under total Israeli control and was united, or even in 1980 when the Knesset passed the "basic law."

Guaranteed, that the Lord's return is a lot closer than it was about 1900 years ago.

 

[Covenanter]

28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Many Bible scholars use the above scripture as proof positive that our Lord will return within a generation of the year 1948, the year of modern Israel's founding. I am not sure exactly just how many years are in a generation, but we are now 71 years past 1948.

Could the years of a generation possibly be 120 years, based on God's word to Noah following the flood? Also, are scholars correct in assuming that the Lord will return within a generation of the founding of modern-day Israel?

A generation is basically the reproductive lifespan - so about 40 years. See the genealogy in Matthew 1, the Sinai experience, the 70 years in Babylon (double for her sin - Isaiah 40:2,) and the 35-40 years between Jesus' Olivet prophecy & the destruction.

In the destruction prophecy context, Jesus is referring to the destruction that will (& did) take place before all who had rejected him had died. These all had the opportunity to repent & believe the Apostles' Gospel.

The interpretation that suggests the restoration of Israel as a nation is presumably based on Jesus' curse of the fig tree which obviously represents the nation, as did the vineyard. You're quoting from Mark; Jesus gives no hope for the fig tree nation -

Mark 11:12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.​

The disciples' question was -

Mark 13:4 “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?”​

This in context refers to the destruction, & the warning signs were given so the Jerusalem Christians would know when to flee from the doomed city. Matthew adds "... end of the age."

There is no teaching of a restored Israel nation in the NT. Romans 9-11 discusses the question & assures his readers that "all Israel will be saved" .... " if they do not persist in unbelief" which we read happening in Acts as many thousands of Israel from "every nation under heaven" believe in Jesus & are baptised in his name.

According to Peter, all Christian believers are members of a "holy nation." Peter refers to the promises to Israel in Exodus 19 in 1 Peter 2:4-10

If the present nation calling itself "Israel" were a restored nation, we would see a people who recognise their Messiah, Jesus as Lord & Saviour. We would see a people known for their godliness & concern for justice. A people eager to comply with the teaching of the OT prophets & heed their warnings. We would see a Christian nation. Instead we see a nation eager to behave as Micah warns against -

Micah 2:1 Woe to those who plan iniquity,
to those who plot evil on their beds!
At morning’s light they carry it out
because it is in their power to do it.
2 They covet fields and seize them,
and houses, and take them.
They defraud people of their homes,
they rob them of their inheritance.

6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.​

Israel treatment of the Palestinian people is utterly abhorrent to the teaching of the Word of God, & also common morality. Their evil behaviour calls for the judgment of God, as it did many times throughout Scripture. The command to REPENT stands to the end of time when Jesus returns.

 

[agedman]

A generation is basically the reproductive lifespan - so about 40 years. See the genealogy in Matthew 1, the Sinai experience, the 70 years in Babylon (double for her sin - Isaiah 40:2,) and the 35-40 years between Jesus' Olivet prophecy & the destruction.

In the destruction prophecy context, Jesus is referring to the destruction that will (& did) take place before all who had rejected him had died. These all had the opportunity to repent & believe the Apostles' Gospel.

The interpretation that suggests the restoration of Israel as a nation is presumably based on Jesus' curse of the fig tree which obviously represents the nation, as did the vineyard. You're quoting from Mark; Jesus gives no hope for the fig tree nation -

Mark 11:12 The next day as they were leaving Bethany, Jesus was hungry. 13 Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs. 14 Then he said to the tree, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard him say it.​

The disciples' question was -

Mark 13:4 “Tell us, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are all about to be fulfilled?”​

This in context refers to the destruction, & the warning signs were given so the Jerusalem Christians would know when to flee from the doomed city. Matthew adds "... end of the age."

There is no teaching of a restored Israel nation in the NT. Romans 9-11 discusses the question & assures his readers that "all Israel will be saved" .... " if they do not persist in unbelief" which we read happening in Acts as many thousands of Israel from "every nation under heaven" believe in Jesus & are baptised in his name.

So, you do not see Romans teaching that the Gentiles are grafted into the believing Israel and that the current estate of Israel being redeemed was temporary for the time of the Gentiles. That when the time of the Gentiles draws to a close, God will again gather the people?

According to Peter, all Christian believers are members of a "holy nation." Peter refers to the promises to Israel in Exodus 19 in 1 Peter 2:4-10

If the present nation calling itself "Israel" were a restored nation, we would see a people who recognise their Messiah, Jesus as Lord & Saviour. We would see a people known for their godliness & concern for justice. A people eager to comply with the teaching of the OT prophets & heed their warnings. We would see a Christian nation. Instead we see a nation eager to behave as Micah warns against -

Micah 2:1 Woe to those who plan iniquity,
to those who plot evil on their beds!
At morning’s light they carry it out
because it is in their power to do it.
2 They covet fields and seize them,
and houses, and take them.
They defraud people of their homes,
they rob them of their inheritance.

6:8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.​

Israel treatment of the Palestinian people is utterly abhorrent to the teaching of the Word of God, & also common morality. Their evil behaviour calls for the judgment of God, as it did many times throughout Scripture. The command to REPENT stands to the end of time when Jesus returns.

I am not defending the ungodliness of any people, there is enough evil in the day and place I dwell.

However, to suggest God is finished with the people whom He brought out of Egypt and called by His name is leaving out a great amount of very specific prophecy yet to be fulfilled and which applies directly to them and not the church.

It matters very little, for my time is not long.

It is just (to me) sad that the hope of reconciliation that God promised to that people in whom He purposely placed in partial blindness until the Gentiles were grafted in is presented as never rising again by you.

Here is specific NT passage that tells just when and how the national Israel will again be drawn and redeemed.
Romans 11:

25Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”​

28As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

33Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

34“For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
35“Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?”​

36For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.​

 

[MB]

28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Many Bible scholars use the above scripture as proof positive that our Lord will return within a generation of the year 1948, the year of modern Israel's founding. I am not sure exactly just how many years are in a generation, but we are now 71 years past 1948.

Could the years of a generation possibly be 120 years, based on God's word to Noah following the flood? Also, are scholars correct in assuming that the Lord will return within a generation of the founding of modern-day Israel?

I can give you something to think about if you like.The Bible says the life span of man is 120 years. A generation has not passed until the last man in that generation is dead. Some claim there are some who live longer than 120 years but I haven't met any of them, or seen proof that they are older than 120 years. However the rapture could come at any moment. There is no sign of the rapture. It just happens so what ever you do be ready. Only God knows the time of it and He hasn't told anyone
MB

 

[David Kent]

I can give you something to think about if you like.The Bible says the life span of man is 120 years. A generation has not passed until the last man in that generation is dead. Some claim there are some who live longer than 120 years but I haven't met any of them, or seen proof that they are older than 120 years. However the rapture could come at any moment. There is no sign of the rapture. It just happens so what ever you do be ready. Only God knows the time of it and He hasn't told anyone
MB

The 120 years was the time that the world was given to repent while Noah built the ark.

The fig tree killuistration was nothing to do with the state of Israel but was to show them that when theyn saw the things described begin to happen then they would know that the destruction of Jerusalem was nigh.

 

[Alan Gross]

Just kidding.

Verse 31 has NOTHING to do with verse 28 to 30.

Nothing.

There is a division and a departure between verses 30 and 31.

And that division is nearly as long as the entire Inner-Advental, New Testament, Age of churches we are Presently in.

Hey, do you want to KNOW THAT YOU KNOW WHAT GOD WANTS US TO UNDERSTAND IN this Passage?

First, there is a 'fig tree' mentioned....

Jesus Starts Talking about 'a fig tree'.

Then, at the end of verse 30, I'm going to say that He is Finished Talking about 'a fig tree'.

In my understanding of the Passage, Jesus Begins an Entirely different subject in verse 31, in which He is Answering the Disciples 3rd question.

If I may, I would like to be excused from a subject matter including some mention of The Nation of Israel in verses 28 to 31 posted.

What is going on?

 

[Alan Gross]

The 120 years was the time that the world was given to repent while Noah built the ark.

The fig tree killuistration was nothing to do with the state of Israel but was to show them that when theyn saw the things described begin to happen then they would know that the destruction of Jerusalem was nigh.

Yeah, I see where Jesus is Talking about a fig tree.

The post includes some stuff from 'Bible Scholars' (?)

What Bible did they use to come up with '1948', or a 'Nation of Israel', or 'modern-day Israel founded', or that being 'a generation', from 'Jesus Returning'?

Does that portion of Scripture mention 'Jesus is Returning'? in 28 to 31?

Israel?

Any Israel?

Does The Bible mention Anything, Anywhere with reference to ANY EVENT of ANY KIND that is to 'take place prior to Jesus Colong Again' ?

 

[Roy]

Am grateful for all of the well thought out replies. My question about Christ's return being linked to modern day Israel and modern day Israel being linked to the fig tree prophecy was well fielded and carefully thought out in this thread.

Personally, I have never known what to make of the prophecy, but a few years back, I had a book by a well-known Baptist celeb. who was adamant in his assertion that Jesus will return before the end of the 1948 generation. If I was sure of the name of that author, I would post it.

 

[Alan Gross]

I see Jesus Answering the questions the Disciples asked and that His Answer to their 3rd question about "The End of The World", as they are presented in Matthew 24:3b

Question 1: "Tell us, when shall these things be?"

Question 2: "and what shall be the sign of thy coming,"

Question 3: "and of the end of the world?"

Since you are in Mark 13, in Mark 13:4, there are 2 questions asked:

1. 4 "Tell us, when shall these things be?"

2. "and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

Taking all three from Matthew gives us the context for Jesus' three Answers.

In Matthew, the third question is about, "The End of The World".

Jesus Answers that question begining at verse 31, in the Mark 13 passage you quoted,

"31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

32."But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33."Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

34."For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

35."Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36."Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37. "And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch."

So, from Mark 13:31 to 37, we are given information, from Jesus, that He is Answering about, when will be "The End of The World" that is included as the third question from Matthew 24:3.

That third question is Answered in Matthew 24: 35 to 51. Everything mentioned in Matthew 24: 35 to 51, is in regard to Jesus Answering about "The End of The World".

(Nothing prior to Matthew 24:35 is in regard to Jesus Answering about "The End of The World", at all. Not one word, but we'll get to all that and show it, or at least refer to the passages, from Mark).

It is interesting, since you are using the Mark passage that prior to Matthew 24:35, Jesus uses the word, 'fulfilled", when He Says, "This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled", because that section of His Answer is to the Disciples second question, in Mark 13:4, which includes the word "fulfilled": "and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

THE "these things" in that question that would be "fulfilled" are in the Disciples' second question and is Answered, by Jesus, in Mark 13: 14 to 30.

The second question?

That is: "and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?"

And so, THERE, they are specifically asking about "the sign" when these things would be fulfilled.

What "things" should be 'fulfilled' ?

Those things fulfilled in the first question: Mark 13:4 "Tell us, when shall these things be?"

With regard to...?

Mark 13: 1, 2: "And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here!

2" And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

In Mark 13: 5 to 13 Jesus Answers the Disciples' first question, in Mark 13:4 "Tell us, when shall these things be?", regarding, The Tempel, after Jesus Had Told them, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

In Mark 13: 14 to 30.

JESUS Answers their second question,

That is: "and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?",

which refers to...?

The Tempel, still, after Jesus Had Told them, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

First the Disciples ask, "when will all the stones of the building Temple be thrown down?"

and there second question is asking for a "sign", of the same thing, "when will we actually see some sign of the exact time when all the stones of the building Temple be thrown down?"

The third question Jesus Answers is not in Mark, but is in Matthew 24:3: "what shall be the sign of.... the end of the world?"

Mark 13: 31 to 37 covers that third question.

Prior to Mark 13:31, there is no reference to "The End of The World".

What I just said there will seem like the strangest thing possible, but it is the key to the Interpretation.

There is no stressing or staining.

The wording and phrases prior to Mark 13: 31 SEEM to have 'lanuage' that talks about 'nothing else' but "The End of The World",... unless....... we consider... 'lanuage'.... used.... In The Bible.

All those expressions prior to Mark 13: 31 have mostly already been used.

They mean something.

Also: Nothing prior to Matthew 24:35 is in regard to Jesus Answering about "The End of The World", at all. Not one word.

The Bible Means What it Says.

Just like Revelation 20 means something by "one thousand years" and it is NOT AT ALL "one thousand years",.... even though that passage says those words SIX TIMES.

THE WORDS mean What God Means, however.

Try to figure a little of this out by looking at the 3 questions I mentioned and then read where I said Mark answers each one.

You'll go nuts.

But it can be shown that that is the One Interpretation and actually the rest of stuff 'celebs', or whoever makes up really are nuts, for real.

 

[David Kent]

If the fig tree represents Israel (which it doesn't) what do "all the trees" represent?

• Luke 21:29-31 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
• 30When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
• 31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

 

[1689Dave]

28Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: 29So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. 30Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 31Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Many Bible scholars use the above scripture as proof positive that our Lord will return within a generation of the year 1948, the year of modern Israel's founding. I am not sure exactly just how many years are in a generation, but we are now 71 years past 1948.

Could the years of a generation possibly be 120 years, based on God's word to Noah following the flood? Also, are scholars correct in assuming that the Lord will return within a generation of the founding of modern-day Israel?

These are all false prophets. Modern day Israel is not Biblical Israel. They are a gentile nation that exists only because of their hatred and rejection of Christ. Now broken off from true Israel with believing gentiles grafted into their place. Only by faith in Christ will any belong to Biblical Israel.

 

[agedman]

These are all false prophets. Modern day Israel is not Biblical Israel. They are a gentile nation that exists only because of their hatred and rejection of Christ. Now broken off from true Israel with believing gentiles grafted into their place. Only by faith in Christ will any belong to Biblical Israel.

Thinking that geographical/political/social/medical (dna) disputes modern Israel validity and somehow they are Gentiles is clearly not biblical teaching.


Here is a specific NT passage that tells just when and how the current national Israel will again be drawn and redeemed.

Romans 11:

25Lest you be wise in your own sight (Speaking to Gentiles) I do not want you (Gentiles) to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,​

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27“and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
when I take away their sins.”​

28As regards the gospel, they (Israel) are enemies for your (Gentile) sake. But as regards election, they (Israel) are beloved for the sake of their (Israel) forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you (Gentiles) were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they (Israel) too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you (Gentiles) they (Israel) also may now receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

33Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

34“For who has known the mind of the Lord,
or who has been his counselor?”
35“Or who has given a gift to him
that he might be repaid?”
36For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.​

The currently ungodly Israel people have been given an “irrevocable trust” from God.

Any eschatological scheme that does not include the redemption by God of the current national/political/social/physical/medical Israel is in conflict with this passage of Romans.

 

[Alan Gross]

agedman,

There isn't any mention of

"just when and how the current national Israel will again be drawn and redeemed"

in the verses you posted

anymore than 'National Israel' is spoken of in The Parable of The Fig Tree.

Who stuck 'National Israel' into these passages?

How about The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel and Jesus IS in the thread passage, from Mark 13.

What if we were to imagine that The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel and Jesus IS TAUGHT in the passage, from Mark 13?

Is that viable?

Is that allowable?

Have you ever considered the possibility that The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel and Jesus mentioned in the passage, from Mark 13, as a 'non-false prophet' proposition?

 

[Alan Gross]

Has anyone looked at the three passages posted here and thought about how they can possibly be referring to answers to the 3 questions that the Disciples have asked Jesus?

In Mark 13:5 to 13 Jesus Answers the Disciples' first question, in Mark 13:4 "Tell us, when shall these things be?", regarding, The Tempel, after Jesus Had Told them, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

Read Mark 13:5 to 13 and see what you think.

In Mark 13:14 to 30.

JESUS Answers their second question,

That is: "and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?",

which refers to...?

The Tempel, still, after Jesus Had Told them, "Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

First the Disciples ask, "when will all the stones of the building Temple be thrown down?"

and there second question is asking for a "sign", of the same thing, "when will we actually see some sign of the exact time when all the stones of the building Temple be thrown down?"

Read Mark 14 to 30, only, and see how it answers their question about a 'sign' of His Coming.

Hint: His Coming is in Provendential Judgment and The Unleashing and Allowing of The Government of Rome to Meet Out Tribulating Punishment on The Temple and Jews, like had never been seen.

Gill says, "Now our Lord observes, that when they should see the Roman armies encompassing Jerusalem, with their ensigns flying, and these abominations on them, they might conclude its desolation was near at hand; and he does not so much mean his apostles, who would be most of them dead, or in other countries, when this would come to pass; but any of his disciples and followers, or any persons whatever, by whom should be seen this desolating abomination, spoken of by Daniel the prophet":

Just as naturally as seeing branches bud and its leaves begin to sprout, WHEN YOU SEE THE ROMAN ARMY you know that JUDGMENT summer is near.

So, His Coming is "14 when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:..." etc.


The third question Jesus Answers is not in Mark, but is in Matthew 24:3: "what shall be the sign of.... the end of the world?"

Mark 13:31 to 37 covers that third question.

Prior to Mark 13:31, there is no reference to "The End of The World".

Read Mark 13:31 to 37.

More on Jesus Coming at The End of The World is in Matthew 24:35 to 51.

While, prior to Matthew 24:35 there is no mention of 'The End of The World.

 

[Alan Gross]

Roy,

Thanks for your question.

I was trying to help you understand 'what to make of this Prophecy'.

There are 56 major points ~ just picking some number ~ that haven't been talked about or resolved in the entire chapter, but they can be.

Like a hand in a glove.

This chapter is a great one to learn how to read and Interpret.

As far as Jesus Returning, I believe every Passage in The Bible Teaches Jesus is Coming, and that Jesus'Return is The End of Time and This Present World.

I have threads called, 'Jesus is Coming'.

There is one Scripture on Jesus' Emminant Return in each.

That is what The Bible Teaching, including Mark 13 & Matthew 24.

I may need to post the Matthew 24 one, so I can link to where I have blogged about it more fully.

The principal determinant in it is that nothing prior to Matthew 24:35 makes any reference or illusion to 'Jesus' Return, at The End of The World', nor does anything prior to Mark 13:31.

And it doesn't need to or fit at all.

There are Pure Bible references as to what all the verses in these Chapters mean.

To begin your understanding of Jesus Return, which He Uses for His Servants TO PREACH, IN PREACHING THE GOSPEL, AND HAVING ZEAL, BEFORE HIS SOON RETURN, at which Time THERE BE NPPURTUNITY FOR ANY HUMAN BEING TO REPENT AND BELIEVE...

Is Matthew 13.

Take these Passages as they are.

The Bible Means What it Says.

When Jesus Returns, He is Separating the sheep from the goats.

IT IS ALL OVER.

The Consummation of aThe Age.

When The Current Kingdom of The Son is Delivered by Jesus, to The Father.

Have you Ever heard anyone Preach that?

We All HAVE TO.

WE'RE HERE, NOW, AND JESUS IS COMING.

 

[agedman]

agedman,

There isn't any mention of

"just when and how the current national Israel will again be drawn and redeemed"

in the verses you posted

anymore than 'National Israel' is spoken of in The Parable of The Fig Tree.

Who stuck 'National Israel' into these passages?

How about The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel and Jesus IS in the thread passage, from Mark 13.

What if we were to imagine that The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel and Jesus IS TAUGHT in the passage, from Mark 13?

Is that viable?

Is that allowable?

Have you ever considered the possibility that The Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel and Jesus mentioned in the passage, from Mark 13, as a 'non-false prophet' proposition?

Prior to the return of Christ, theScriptures present two Israels.

Those Gentiles redeemed are called Israel because they are grafted into those redeemed of Israel. Then there is the national/political social geographical larger grouping.

The Scriptures teach in the OT program presentation by the prophets and in the NT as shown in my post of the national return of the national Israel.

Just because some future scheme of human conjuring in which the racial bias against Jews obliged ignoring, disregarding, discrediting, displacing, and gerrymandering the Scriptures to remove the Jewish influence and presence in the last times does not oblige me to agree.

The single scheme that is not ultimately racist and biased against Jews is the premillennial return of Christ. That from all noteworthy historians is also the teaching of the early church. This scheme is not “Darby dispensation” but the oldest and the one most conformed to Scriptures.