fromtheright said:
Eliyahu,
I'm not sure what you were disagreeing with in my post.
The following comments clarify further the differences, while I could notice the difference in the expected result of Pre-Emptive Attacks, Supply of the parts from Japan.
(3) I certainly don't disagree with you about the risks of a pre-emptive attack by Japan and I hope they don't do it because of those very risks but there is no doubt that Korea firing missiles into Japanese territory is an act of war and Japan is certainly within their rights to respond. {/quote] the missiles fell into the Open Sea or High Sea, not into the territory of Japan. You may be misguided by the Word " Sea of Japan" again. India fired the missiles into the Open Sea too.
(5) No, I wasn't aware that the Japanese had kidnapped Koreans during WWII. They committed other atrocities during WWII including cruel treatment, atrocities and biological experiments on Americans captured. Does that mean the U.S. would be justified in going to Japan and kidnapping people?
Nope. I said I never condone such behavior but pointed out that "Strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel" (Mt 23: 24)
(6)
It is a nonsensical comparison that I have never heard anyone make. What is true is that the Japanese government has become democratic and that the North Korean is a brutal Stalinist dictatorship.
of course there is such difference.
It's too bad the two Kim's didn't listen because they are both animals.
I don't disagree.
(7) Your argument that the U.S. is to blame for the Korean War is naive at best, and foolish, to put it mildly. North Korean Communists invaded South Korea, then followed by China. I'm sure you know Korean history well enough to know the atrocities perpetrated by the Communists as they came into South Korea and as they took power in North Korea.
US is very much responsible for the division of Korea into 2 pieces as they divided it at the Yalta conference Feb 1945. If there was no division of Korea there would have happened no Korean War. US ignored the importance of one nation's unity and was ignorant about the history. US may realize it if they suffer the same cruelty in the future. Even Japanese didn't divide Korea then suddenly US divided it into 2 pieces. Many families had to be split due to the split of the country. US declared the their defense line is Japan and Taiwan, which signaled NK may take the south. Then suddenly they realized that the next will become Japan, then started to get involved in the war. If US didn't divide Korea into 2 pieces, then US would not have sacrificed 55,000 lives in the Korean War.
(8)
Yeah, real benign, patriotic saviors, those North Koreans.
US have not minded about the local history. The main problem was that they followed Communism, not the matter of pursuing the patriotic people.
(9)
Pardon my impudence but being the tripline for South Korean freedom seems like some payment to me. Not to mention American lives that have been lost since the Korean War, near the DMZ, that not many Americans realize and you conveniently ignore. That's Americans on the front line.
What if US didn't divide Korea? then they would have stayed as one nation without war.
What if US hadn't help SK? the whole Korea would have become Communist country, then turned into capitalist country as communists fade away, but there was no more division and no more cold war between SK and NK. In the meantime, Russia could have come down south of Korea, China could have come down south of Korea, Japan would have become on the front line, the free world would have shrunk quite a lot, and I cannot imagine further the result thereof.
(10)
Again, NK or SK? Please clarify.
There is still a dispute about 2 Islands in the East Sea ( Japs call it Sea of Japan, though it is international Open Sea). Historically it has belonged to Korea, but Jap declared it belongs to Jap in 1905 since they forfeited the Diplomatic Sovereignty of Korea. This means that Japan recognized the ownership belonging to Korea before. There are plenty of historical evidences supporting Korea on this. After WWII, US declared the boundaries of Korea in San Francisco Conference, where the maps were suggested, and even the map support Korea. Currently it is occupied by SK. US could have been clearer on this since it organized the territory issue after the WWII, but has been quiet about it. The problem is that Japan has continuously aggressive about this island and has increased their Navy. In case Japanese attack this island with their Navy much more powerful than SK's, NK may declare the war against Japan too. Then the whole situation becomes much more complicated. Suddenly SK starts to get the assistance from the enemy. US has been quiet saying that they can be neutral all the time. Do you see the difference between Germany and Japan? Germany gave up the lands of Shilesia to Poland, Zdeten to Chech, Saarland to France, even though they had much more right on them than Japanese had anything to do with these tiny lands. US citizens do not know about how much serious this dispute is between Japan and SK now.
(12)
'Sorry, but here you sound like an apologist for North Korea. Please explain if I misunderstood you. It was North Korea who violated the agreement, and they admitted it, when inspectors caught them. That is when North Korea declared they were abandoning the Agreed Framework. The Agreed Framework included providing the nuke plants as you stated. The U.S. made moves to do so but North Korea was even obstructionist in cooperating on the building and location. The U.S. refused to abide by that agreement once North Korea puled out of the Agreement. Further, the U.S. did in fact ship oil to NK as part of that Framework until NK backed out.
And, wait a minute, "USA kept the promise" or USA violated the Geneva Treaty of 1994"? Which?
Nope ! This is a big misunderstanding by Americans. As none of News media of US report the truth, ( though sometimes NYT reports quite in depth), many are misled and misunderstanding the facts.
In 1994, US, NK, and Japan and SK made the agreements as follows:
1) NK stop and seal the Nuke facility in Young Byon, Heavy Water Reactor
2) Those countries form an Organization called "KEDO" which build up the Light Water Reactor Nuke Plant in Shinpo.
3) The Light Water Reactor connstruction may take 5-7 years, in the meantime NK need the electricity, and therefore it should be supplied by KEDO
4) The cost should be shared by the countries which benfit from this treaty, namely SK, Jap, US, and even EU a little.
But the treaty was not ratified by the US congress and senate quickly as GOP was majority or objected to it.
US wanted to sell Westinghouse/GE facility to KEDO, and Russia tried to sell their reactors to KEDO. SK said they would not object to any other country if they are willing to share the cost of KEDO for 70%, but SK would pay only 30% of the KEDO cost if SK don't supply SK model of Reactor. Then all the other competitors gave up and Korea was supposed to pay 70% of the KEDO expense and supply Korean model of Reactor to Nk.
It sounds too
And to your second post:
(1) China has provided booster technology to North Korea. In the early 80's they provided reverse engineering of the SCUD-B to NK in the areas of engine design, metallurgy and airframe technology. In 1988-1991, a reported 230 military officials and weapons specialists traveled to Yinchuan, China to learn “nuclear testing technology” and “missile flight testing technology”. In February 1994, US satellites detected new “missile simulator” in Pyongyang. The mock-up appeared to be a two-stage missile with the first stage resembling the Chinese CSS-2. China denies providing North Korea with advanced missile technology. (Source:
www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/NK/Missile/66.html)
(2) As to your second point, we can only speculate, but the history you provided is certainly helpful perspective. Nothing I said in my earlier posts would suggest disagreement. Another perspective that can't be ignored, however, is the massive starvation in NK and the fact that many North Koreans have gone into and sought to go into China for relief of their starvation.
(4) Huh?
(5)
As to fastest economic growth, that's
South Korea, not the entire peninsula.
(6)
Specifics?
(7)
Gosh, we're there to defend South Korea. Imagine the gall of having South Korea pay for that!
(8)
Maybe you don't get out much, but this was certainly reported here.
And from your last post:
Pretty brutal.[/quote]