Jerry Walls wicked and profane question about God

[SovereignGrace]

Just to point out that they are reformed from catholic dogma and doctrine. If you follow Willis, he could very well be introducing Limbo and Perogation into the discussion and isn’t that a catholic doctrine?

Also the Reformers claim that the they are spinoffs of the Catholic Church thus they are Protestants. They have even written several lovely Confessions of Faith to explain their beliefs in large detail... but I don’t see it following Popes and magistrates although Presbyterians and other Reformed churches have adopted infant baptisms and Covenant theology which I find disturbing on a few levels.

Willis isn't introducing anything of the such. All I am saying is an argument for babies going to heaven isn't as iron-clad as many think it is. I am not saying they'll go to hell either. I JUST DON'T KNOW...the bible isn't explicitly clear on this, imo.

 

[Iconoclast]

But that's where I am uneasy. We see that the saved are saved via the gospel. Now, I agree that babies and those incapable of answering for themselves are still fallen in Adam. So, I am not saying they'll end up in hell, but I am also not swinging the pendulum to the other side and giving them an automatic passage into heaven, either.

I understand the message the 1689 is conveying, but I am not sure that explains it either.

Hello S G
The key here is when the confession says....elect persons.......infants, or those incapable of being called by other means.....this leaves it in God's hands where it belongs.
.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Willis isn't introducing anything of the such. All I am saying is an argument for babies going to heaven isn't as iron-clad as many think it is. I am not saying they'll go to hell either. I JUST DON'T KNOW...the bible isn't explicitly clear on this, imo.

Correct it isn’t, not if your theological construct embraces Election and Total Depravity, which mine does... and btw, these are Doctrines of Grace talking points that are on the table .... and they themselves do not provide clarity. From my own personal prospective, I have 2 members of my own family who are affected by this. So what are my options.
1. Stop believing in Doctrines of Grace... that will assuage my souls confusion regarding the disposition of those two souls.

2. Be content, understanding that the Lord will do right.

 

[Iconoclast]

I’m afraid you fail to recognize that the 1689 LBC you continually reference is merely a philosophical construct involving theories of compatibilism which try to logically justify Deterministic views of the scriptures. And your close and blindly faithful adherence to these writer's philosophical interpretations of the scriptures typically tends to to lead you to beg the question of their, and Calvinisms', accuracy in so far as it seems you put these men's philosophy on an equal footing with scriptural revelation.

No.....I do not wander into the maze of carnal philosophical jargon that suggests truth is subjective and not knowable.
Revealed truth speaks a clear note understood by saints of all time.
The only places we see in scripture where people thought as you do were the confused persons in Acts 17 who tried to rationalize the apostle Paul's message to undermine the certainty of it.
You know Ben.....I could see you there next to them, trying out your philosophical worldview on the apostle Paul...lol....to no avail.

 

[Iconoclast]

Correct it isn’t, not if your theological construct embraces Election and Total Depravity, which mine does... and btw, these are Doctrines of Grace talking points that are on the table .... and they themselves do not provide clarity. From my own personal prospective, I have 2 members of my own family who are affected by this. So what are my options.
1. Stop believing in Doctrines of Grace... that will assuage my souls confusion regarding the disposition of those two souls.

2. Be content, understanding that the Lord will do right.

The scripture is quite clear on this, if rightly understood.
You are not the only person who has direct contact with such persons.
Your worry apart departed persons changes nothing .In 6:37-44 is clear and certain. We know Gen18:25 is always true.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The scripture is quite clear on this, if rightly understood.
You are not the only person who has direct contact with such persons.
Your worry apart departed persons changes nothing .In 6:37-44 is clear and certain. We know Gen18:25 is always true.

I believe I have posted this before... it clearly represents my beliefs

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And he did it in 4 minutes... he explained your relationship with you and your savior in 4 minutes and he did it with exuberance and deep understanding. They don’t make them like that anymore. Can I get an amen!?!

 

[Benjamin]

No.....I do not wander into the maze of carnal philosophical jargon that suggests truth is subjective and not knowable.
Revealed truth speaks a clear note understood by saints of all time.
The only places we see in scripture where people thought as you do were the confused persons in Acts 17 who tried to rationalize the apostle Paul's message to undermine the certainty of it.
You know Ben.....I could see you there next to them, trying out your philosophical worldview on the apostle Paul...lol....to no avail.

Once again you demonstrate that you fail to understand that philosophy involves the scientific study of drawing out the truth in an argument which would be the opposite of your claim that it has the goal of subjectivity toward truth and of suggesting it is not knowable. The fact remains that it is pretty obvious you do use and put the philosophical construct of the writers of the 1689 LBC on a pedestal and the elevation and cult-like worship of these men’s teaching should be cause for alarm in the same sense that one should look upon Pentecostals claims of getting info and healing powers straight from God.

BTW, even Paul, who did get his info straight from God was quite the philosopher, said the Bereans were of more noble character for questioning his words, using their own minds and going to the scriptures to see whether or not his words lined up with the truth. You should probably try that sometime...

 

[Iconoclast]

Benjamin,

Once again you demonstrate that you fail to understand that philosophy involves the scientific study of drawing out the truth in an argument

I will plead guilty as charged here.I do understand this however:
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

earthly carnal philosophy does not match clear scriptural declarations of truth.

.

The fact remains that it is pretty obvious you do use and put the philosophical construct of the writers of the 1689 LBC on a pedestal

I use the clear declarations contained in that document because this was their goal in writing it....they quoted from Luke 1:
Luke 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,

2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;

3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Do you see the clear statement?....not failed philosophical notions,of pseudo intellectuals....

and the elevation and cult-like worship of these men’s teaching

These men, and others I cut and paste....have never been refuted or corrected here on BB. Their biblical offers are like kryptonite to non cals on here as they retreat into the darkness, rather than enter in and attempt any kind of biblical correction.

BTW, even Paul, who did get his info straight from God was quite the philosopher

,

Funny you should mention that, Paul as an educated person knew enough about what they thought, to make short work of them by turning to God given wisdom instead.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Notice...God even ORDAINED the scriptural wisdom for the elect before the world was....He ordained them, their salvation, and Godly wisdom for their sanctification....gotta love it right Ben?

said the Bereans were of more noble character for questioning his words, using their own minds and going to the scriptures to see whether or not his words lined up with the truth. You should probably try that sometime...

Yes....that is why I am a confessional Christian....notice Benjamin....the little numbers under each paragraph in the confession....represent and point to verses of scripture that you are encouraged to look up and study....I look forward to the time when you can look up the verses also.

 

[Benjamin]

Benjamin,


I will plead guilty as charged here.I do understand this however:
...earthly carnal philosophy does not match clear scriptural declarations of truth.

I use the clear declarations contained in that document because this was their goal in writing it....they quoted from Luke 1:

Do you see the clear statement?

You attempt to use the euphemism of “clear decorations” instead of “philosophical construct” to describe the 1689 LBC writings and apparently believe that carries of weight of proving truth, but should take note of some basic critical thinking skills that expose such rhetoric as fallaciously begging the question, at best.

So let me get this straight, it is not acceptable to question the writings in the 1689 LBC because of the writer’s claims under Luke 1 that their understanding is perfect and that they are on the same level as the apostles, therefore they cannot/should not be questioned as to their accuracy? Hmm, if that’s how you believe maybe you should try out some Pentecostal churches in comparison because they make the very same claims.

These men, and others I cut and paste....have never been refuted or corrected here on BB. Their biblical offers are like kryptonite to non cals on here as they retreat into the darkness, rather than enter in and attempt any kind of biblical correction.

Nope, Icon, your claims of others here not using scripture or ever refuting the Doctrines of Determinism are quite old, a weak argument and have been disproven many times along with the philosophical constructs of those in the 1689 LBC who you believe are divinely and mystically superior in their interpretations wherein they have tried to justify their Deterministic views through theories of compatibilism and self-aggrandizement by use of scripture.

Notice...God even ORDAINED the scriptural wisdom for the elect before the world was....He ordained them, their salvation, and Godly wisdom for their sanctification....gotta love it right Ben?

Yes....that is why I am a confessional Christian....notice Benjamin....the little numbers under each paragraph in the confession....represent and point to verses of scripture that you are encouraged to look up and study....I look forward to the time when you can look up the verses also.

I would encourage you to be more careful in your "confessional" followings of the philosophical constructs of men and their proclaimed superiority and work a little more on understanding:

(Eph 4:14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

(Col 2:8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Act 20:30-31

(30) Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

(31) Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

 

[Iconoclast]

Benjamin

Nope, Icon, your claims of others here not using scripture or ever refuting the Doctrines of Determinism are quite old,

Really...lets look at the majority of your post....verbose ramblings
not quite the words from Acts15...or any other portion of scripture

“philosophical construct” rhetoric as fallaciously begging the question, at best.Doctrines of Determinism,the philosophical constructs,the philosophical constructs,divinely and mystically superior ,their Deterministic views ,theories of compatibilism,self-aggrandizement, philosophical constructs,compatibilism ,the philosophical constructs ,

So let me get this straight, it is not acceptable to question the writings in the 1689 LBC

I did not say that, but I understand you have to make believe I did so you can try and answer...

because of the writer’s claims under Luke 1 that their understanding is perfect and that they are on the same level as the apostles

,

I like your style...create a monster strawman to obscure the teaching of these godly men...

therefore they cannot/should not be questioned as to their accuracy?

you are not embarrassed by this?

Hmm, if that’s how you believe maybe you should try out some Pentecostal churches in comparison because they make the very same claims.

yes ...we see the thinly veiled deflection..

Nope, Icon, your claims of others here not using scripture or ever refuting the Doctrines of Determinism are quite old, a weak argument and have been disproven many times

At this point Benjamin realized he once again offered no scripture...so he scrambles to throw a few token verses in, that ironically describe his misguided rhetoric

(Col 2:8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

This is describing your language in most of your posts....

 

[utilyan]

Sermon on the mount 2.0

Jesus walks up the mount and says "I got this."

The End.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

1 John 5:1

 

[kyredneck]

Wrong, sport. Off to ignoreville for you, too.

#BuhBye!!!

...atta way Willis! You tell em! Someone dares ruffle your panties - put em on ignore!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

...atta way Willis! You tell em! Someone dares ruffle your panties - put em on ignore!

Might as well do that to anyone who has fallen prey to modern religion... then ya would never have any chance at changing anyone’s mind.

 

[utilyan]

1 John 5:1

1 John 5:2

 

[kyredneck]

Might as well do that to anyone who has fallen prey to modern religion... then ya would never have any chance at changing anyone’s mind.

...he comes back to the BB to do what, put all opposing views on ignore? On a DEBATE forum? Who's he been hanging with that's made him so extreme?

 

[Yeshua1]

Define 'some fashion'.

Radio, TV, Missionary, Bible, pamphlet, another person witnessing, church now going up etc!

 

[Yeshua1]

God actively chose who would be saved by His own Will and Pleasure, but he also permits the remainder to freely choose to reject Jesus and gey their desire to be apart from God in Hell.

 

[Yeshua1]

You attempt to use the euphemism of “clear decorations” instead of “philosophical construct” to describe the 1689 LBC writings and apparently believe that carries of weight of proving truth, but should take note of some basic critical thinking skills that expose such rhetoric as fallaciously begging the question, at best.

So let me get this straight, it is not acceptable to question the writings in the 1689 LBC because of the writer’s claims under Luke 1 that their understanding is perfect and that they are on the same level as the apostles, therefore they cannot/should not be questioned as to their accuracy? Hmm, if that’s how you believe maybe you should try out some Pentecostal churches in comparison because they make the very same claims.



Nope, Icon, your claims of others here not using scripture or ever refuting the Doctrines of Determinism are quite old, a weak argument and have been disproven many times along with the philosophical constructs of those in the 1689 LBC who you believe are divinely and mystically superior in their interpretations wherein they have tried to justify their Deterministic views through theories of compatibilism and self-aggrandizement by use of scripture.



I would encourage you to be more careful in your "confessional" followings of the philosophical constructs of men and their proclaimed superiority and work a little more on understanding:

(Eph 4:14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

(Col 2:8) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Act 20:30-31

(30) Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

(31) Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Can any created being in the ultimate sense stop the Determined Will of God to get accomplished?