Jesus Christ - God Incarnate - Lamb of God ... ALWAYS the plan, or just a patch after the fall?

[atpollard]

Edit: Additionally, your Father doesn’t have a Type B child, because on your system He converts them to a Type A child.

I am beating a dead horse at this point, but the “A” & “B” analogy was about God creating Adam (not all people) and was created to address the specific question about whether God created Adam predestined to sin. It does NOT apply to all people (we are not a specific act of divine creation like Adam).

Under my system, nobody becomes “perfect” in obedience (a Type A child) until they die and are glorified. That isn’t even a “Calvinist” thing, just a non-Pelagian thing (no sinless perfection in this life).

 

[Psalty]

I am beating a dead horse at this point, but the “A” & “B” analogy was about God creating Adam (not all people) and was created to address the specific question about whether God created Adam predestined to sin. It does NOT apply to all people (we are not a specific act of divine creation like Adam).

Under my system, nobody becomes “perfect” in obedience (a Type A child) until they die and are glorified. That isn’t even a “Calvinist” thing, just a non-Pelagian thing (no sinless perfection in this life).

Actually it does, because then after the Fall the God you are talking about now Creates humans unable to respond to Him. They are now type A in unbelief, and then the ones that are saved are done so effectually and so even the type B’s become type A.

I will go through your other post a bit later, but the big deal is that your God sends people to hell because He does not love them the same. My God send them to Hell because they rejected Him and want nothing to do with Him.

 

[Ben1445]

Yes, in theory. In reality, we know that Adam DID SIN. The fact that Adam DID means that Adam COULD [it is self evident that if Adam “could not” sin, then there would have been no fall].

Therefore, the only real alternative to what DID HAPPEN (Adam COULD and DID sin) would be for God to create an Adam that COULD NOT sin (in which case mankind WOULD NOT have fallen from Eden). God did not create an Adam incapable of sin, did He?

The argument for a “could sin” but “does not sin” is the essence of Pelagianism (which is false by virtue of the fact that 100% of all people “do sin” … making “does not sin” a hypothetical myth).

The only thing that I am challenging is that God only had two choices. Just because you can only figure two and others can figure three doesn’t make any changes to how many options God has.
In reality, what you are doing is saying that there are only allowed to be two options, the two you like, but we all know that all men are sinners, so to say that God could have made man to not sin is the same as saying almost anything else that didn’t happen.
I don’t care what you call any other idea. The fact that the hypothetical has been entered into gives room for wider speculation than what you allow.

 

[Psalty]

Just for the record, does your God decide who to save? [Does Ephesians 2:8-9 apply to your God or just the “Calvinist” God?]

Yes, He saves those that believe in Him. And He loves even those that He sends to Hell. This is different than Calvinist God who only saves those He truly loves, and does not live those He sends to hell.

Did your God create them both or is only the “Calvinist” God the great creator?

Yes, He created them both and loves them both equally, desiring neither to go to Hell.

Does your God send people to hell, or is that only the “Calvinist” God that condemns sinners to the “second death”?

Yes, those that reject His gracious gift of Grace He sends to Hell, not because He wants them there but because they have no grace to satisfy His justice.

Does your ‘god’ save everybody (universalism) or are we (human beings) just more moral than the God of “Calvinism” and the Bible that saves His sheep and condemns the goats?

He saves all those that through faith in Jesus accept the grace offered by His son. It is only the God of Calvinism that has pre-ordained some to be saved and some to Hell.

I am just checking since you make it seem like the non-Calvinist god rejects Biblical teaching on Judgement and Hell.

No, I only reject How the God of Calvinism sends them there because according to the systematic, and what we find scripture saying about what both Justice and Love are:
1. He is not perfectly loving according to His own scriptures
2. He is not perfectly just according to His own scriptures