Jesus Christ: The Atonement For The Human Race

[Saved-By-Grace]

ALL sinners are accountable to God for being those who reject Jesus, as they are doing what they really wanted to do.
God shows mercy upon those whom He desires too, and does not show that upon others, is God at fault for how we all hate Him and reject Jesus>
Is God wrong to save out His elect from among all sinners than?

The Bible clearly says that He desires ALL to come to Jesus Christ. A fact that has been completely distorted by the Reformed nonsense! Even John Calvin saw the Truth that God wants to save ALL mankind!

 

[Darrell C]

Yes, I have seen the problem in trying to define doctrines using English terms, which are often so different to what the Hebrew and Greek actually mean

I gave you the Greek where we see Atonement and Reconciliation equated to each other. You had no comment on that?


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

what is wrong with your "theology", is that you have God send His Gospel Message for the salvation of ALL sinners, without exception; but has made sure that those who are not predetermined by Him to salvation, He has left unable to respond, as He has not given them the same "grace". This is a false presentation of the Gospel, because it is fully known before that the greater majority have been already excluded from ever accepting the Gospel, and can never be saved"! This is NOT taught anywhere in the Holy Bible.

Jesus death was intended by God to be the basis to save some sinners, but not to save all sinners....

 

[Darrell C]

The Bible clearly says that He desires ALL to come to Jesus Christ. A fact that has been completely distorted by the Reformed nonsense! Even John Calvin saw the Truth that God wants to save ALL mankind!

That doesn't mean He doesn't know there are those who are going to reject Him despite all His efforts:


Revelation 17:8
King James Version (KJV)

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


He is not willing that any should perish, and that all (and all means all) should come to repentance, but, the fact is that there is a many/few ratio taught in Scripture. Many lost, few saved.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Bible clearly says that He desires ALL to come to Jesus Christ. A fact that has been completely distorted by the Reformed nonsense! Even John Calvin saw the Truth that God wants to save ALL mankind!

If God indeed wanted to save all humanity, than He is feeble, as many will not make it!

 

[Yeshua1]

John and Charles Wesley taught Penal Substitution.

last time I checked, neither rof them were Calvinists!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

I gave you the Greek where we see Atonement and Reconciliation equated to each other. You had no comment on that?


God bless.

sorry, I have missed this. can you please tell me what # it is? thanks

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

If God indeed wanted to save all humanity, than He is feeble, as many will not make it!

I am sorry to say this. But your position is very much a deceived one. Just ONE Scripture should tell ALL very clearly, if it is left to speak for itself, without corruption or twisting, the EXTENT of God's Incredible Love and Mercy for the lost HUMAN RACE. John 3:16, which has rightly been called, "The Gospel in A Nutshell". But even this the HATERS of the lost will TWIST!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Jesus death was intended by God to be the basis to save some sinners, but not to save all sinners....

complete and utter RUBBISH! Against the very heart and nature of God!

So WHY do YOU think that God should save YOU?

 

[Darrell C]

sorry, I have missed this. can you please tell me what # it is? thanks

Here...

Romans 5:10-11
King James Version (KJV)

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


...the concepts combined and essentially made identical. I don't think we can separate Reconciliation and Atonement.

Secondly, we cannot compare the atonement of the Old Testament (obtained through animal sacrifice) with The Atonement, because men were not reconciled to God through those sacrifices.

The word katallagē ("the atonement", reconciled is katallassō)in v.11 is also translated reconciliation in the KJV:

Just click on the arrow by my name and it will take you to the thread. I also wanted to point out that I have inserted links to the original language, those would the blue words in the verses.


God bless.

 

[Yeshua1]

you guys simply do NOT understand the Bible on salvation!

Are we even saved then?

 

[Yeshua1]

complete and utter RUBBISH! Against the very heart and nature of God!

So WHY do YOU think that God should save YOU?

He shouldn't have, as I had nothing of worth to present to Him, but I thank god that he did choose to save me!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

Are we even saved then?

sort that out with the Lord. you guys show so much HATE towards the lost, that it sickens the Good Lord!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

He shouldn't have, as I had nothing of worth to present to Him, but I thank god that he did choose to save me!

Calvinistic/Reformed theology has done VERY MUCH damage to the pure Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, by pushing what I believe to be "doctrines of demons", and doing the devils work for him against God and the Holy Bible.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

last time I checked, neither rof them were Calvinists!

Why are "Calvinists" always RIGHT? Why don't Calvinists remain true to their theology, and when preaching on John 3:16, tell the people what you honestly believe, that God does NOT love the entire human race, that He wants them ALL saved? Not just that Jesus died for the entire human race, but that He also wants ALL to come to Him for salvation. Why not tell the lost world that God actively HATES some of you because you are worse sinners that the "elect", and will damn their souls to eternal punishment? This is what Reformed theology actually teaches, so why not tell this in your messages and books?

 

[Wesley Briggman]

[Mat 1:21 KJV] 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
[Luk 1:68, 77 KJV] 68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, ... 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
[Luk 7:16 KJV] 16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

[Mat 1:21 KJV] 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
[Luk 1:68, 77 KJV] 68 Blessed [be] the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, ... 77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
[Luk 7:16 KJV] 16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.

Indeed, "His people" being the JEWS and NOT the "elect"!

 

[Darrell C]

Calvinistic/Reformed theology has done VERY MUCH damage to the pure Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ,

I would agree that there are some positions of Calvinist/Reformed Theology that do cause harm, my least favorite being their belief that men are regenerated in order to have faith.

But...

by pushing what I believe to be "doctrines of demons"

...I would not call it doctrine of demons, simply error. Some of it is right, lol.

and doing the devils work for him against God and the Holy Bible.

Not really. I think most Calvinists and Reformed believers would admit there is still a demand to witness for Christ, whether they think one is "Elect" or not. And most cannot properly answer when asked if babies go to Hell or not, except to say they do if they are non-elect.

But just curious, why so much emotion over Calvinism/Reformed Theology? This apparently has you pretty upset.


God bless.

 

[TCassidy]

I most certainly do! Text, like W&H, Tregellis, UBS, etc. Manuscript, Patristic, early versions evidence is far more important of what some text says. Take a look at 1 Timothy 3:16 in the "texts", and then look at the Greek Church fathers, and you will see the difference. Like the testimony of Ignatius, (A.D.35-108) who wrote, "εν σαρκι γενομενοϛ Θεοϛ", and "Θεου ανθρωπινωϛ ϕανερουμενου".

Once more. You gotta learn the difference between a text and a manuscript. If not you will not be able to keep up with the discussion.

 

[TCassidy]

Indeed, "His people" being the JEWS and NOT the "elect"!