Jesus Christ was Born of Woman . . . fact or fiction?

[Jordan Kurecki]

God's plan didn't "need". However, God found it appropriate to act in the manner He did.



To my knowledge God has no "needs". Please don't put words in my mouth.

.
Unless He is righting a wrong. He's righting Eve's sin through Mary the New Eve. It was through Eve the first man sinned and brought death to himself and his progeny. It is through the New Eve death is overcome, bringing His life to the progeny of Adam.

JoeT

Where in the Bible is Mary referred to as the New Eve? Sounds like manmade tradition to me.

 

[37818]

Thus Noah and his family were saved from sin through the waters of the deluge.

Again, how? We agree that, ". . . Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: . . ." -- 2 Peter 3:6. Do we not?

Second, St. Peter draws the parallel between the saving waters of the deluge for Noah and that of the saving waters of baptism for you and I. However, he goes through the trouble of the exclusion, "not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God" to demonstrate the effects of the waters of baptism act not on the exterior (washing the flesh), but rather interiorly, on the conscience and soul of man.

Ok, how does that make the immersion the anti-type of Noah and family save through water of the flood? (Without the not mentioned ark they too would have perished with that world that was.) BTW, typically Catholics are not immersed. And babies cannot excercize a good conscience toward God. So as I am hearing your Catholic arguments here, does not make good sense.

Personally, my understanding is the believer's immersion represents to no longer live for this world, but to live for God and His Kingdom. So you know my view.

 

[JoeT]

Nice gymnastics routine. Yet, you avoid the verses presented to you.

Matthew 13:55-56 Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”

Mark 6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.

It seems that your church dogma trumps the Bible...as always.

Let's look at Matthew 13:55-56

"Is not this the carpenter's son?"; why yes this is the carpenter's son, Jesus Christ.

"Is not his mother called Mary?"; why yes Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ who is God, thus Mary is the Mother of God.

Are you still with me?

Now we have, "and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude: And his sisters, are they not all with us?" Now James, Joseph, Simon and Jude, all have been identified as brothers of a different mother, or co-workers in the Kingdom of God. So too the sister, perhaps the first "sisters of Clare"

But, you've yet to produce a "soandso", other than Jesus Christ "son of Mary and Joseph"

JoeT

 

[JoeT]

So God had body suit or closet of flesh in heaven that he simply had Jesus slip on and then used Mary to be the transporter by which He passed into creation?

I'm trying to figure out if this is a joke or if you are serious and actually believe this...


FYI, the incarnation, by definition, requires a mother.

Oh no, there is always Dr. Frankenstein!

JoeT

 

[Particular]

Really?
Show me where the Bible makes this claim
Chapter and Verse, please . . .

I'll make it easy for you:
Show me ANY Early Churh writing that makes this claim.

Happy hunting . . .

No need for the Bible to make the claim. The fact that the children are named is sufficient to know they had a healthy sex life.
Yet, you go out of your way to make up a fantastical story about how they couldn't be sexually active to the glory of God.

 

[Particular]

Let's look at Matthew 13:55-56

"Is not this the carpenter's son?"; why yes this is the carpenter's son, Jesus Christ.

"Is not his mother called Mary?"; why yes Mary is the Mother of Jesus Christ who is God, thus Mary is the Mother of God.

Are you still with me?

Now we have, "and his brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude: And his sisters, are they not all with us?" Now James, Joseph, Simon and Jude, all have been identified as brothers of a different mother, or co-workers in the Kingdom of God. So too the sister, perhaps the first "sisters of Clare"

But, you've yet to produce a "soandso", other than Jesus Christ "son of Mary and Joseph"

JoeT

The context clearly shows they are Jesus brothers and sisters, just as Mary is mother and Joseph is father.
Now, I'm waiting for the argument that Joseph was a polygamist with another wife from which the other kids were produced. Care to go there?

 

[MarysSon]

No need for the Bible to make the claim. The fact that the children are named is sufficient to know they had a healthy sex life.
Yet, you go out of your way to make up a fantastical story about how they couldn't be sexually active to the glory of God.

Sooooooo, where does it say that these “named” adelphoi of Jesus are Mary’s children??

Acts 1:15 says that there were 120 adelphoi gathered together in Jerusalem to choose a successor for Judas. ELEVEN of them are mentioned by name. Does this mean that they were they ALL from the same mother??

We know that they weren‘t because that would mean all of the Apostles were uterine brothers.

So much for YOUR asinine theory that names = Mary’s children . . .

 

[MarysSon]

The context clearly shows they are Jesus brothers and sisters, just as Mary is mother and Joseph is father.
Now, I'm waiting for the argument that Joseph was a polygamist with another wife from which the other kids were produced. Care to go there?

How these the context "clearly" show this??

 

[utilyan]

I'm saying God is Jesus father and Mary hosted Jesus as her earthly son for 33 years. But, she had no dna connected or merged into Jesus.
In other words...God didn't need and didn't use her egg to place himself in her womb.

You don't understand the verb conceive. Or how it works.

If its not her DNA then she is not the mother period.

Neither is Jesus human.

If we conceive a child, miraculously transplant it into your womb, YOU ARE NOT THE MOTHER.

You are overboard wrong here. Give me some names of your superiors, I guarantee not everyone in your camp shares your radical view.

Hypostatic Union is the correct understanding.

Your heresy was started by a Gnostic Valentinus.


The whole point of Jesus being human is conceived, son of man, actual human.

If not God could have just TELEPORTED Jesus "a complete human being" straight to earth.


God is not subject to physical mechanics, spiritual mechanics, or any law of existence.

God does not need a tow truck to move your car.

 

[Particular]

Sooooooo, where does it say that these “named” adelphoi of Jesus are Mary’s children??

Acts 1:15 says that there were 120 adelphoi gathered together in Jerusalem to choose a successor for Judas. ELEVEN of them are mentioned by name. Does this mean that they were they ALL from the same mother??

We know that they weren‘t because that would mean all of the Apostles were uterine brothers.

So much for YOUR asinine theory that names = Mary’s children . . .

Context my son. Read the context and know they are Mary and Joseph's kids.
Or...live in denial and keep jumping the shark.

 

[Particular]

How these the context "clearly" show this??

Read and find out. It's straight forward. No pretzels needed.

 

[Particular]

You don't understand the verb conceive. Or how it works.

If its not her DNA then she is not the mother period.

Neither is Jesus human.

If we conceive a child, miraculously transplant it into your womb, YOU ARE NOT THE MOTHER.

You are overboard wrong here. Give me some names of your superiors, I guarantee not everyone in your camp shares your radical view.

Hypostatic Union is the correct understanding.

Your heresy was started by a Gnostic Valentinus.


The whole point of Jesus being human is conceived, son of man, actual human.

If not God could have just TELEPORTED Jesus "a complete human being" straight to earth.


God is not subject to physical mechanics, spiritual mechanics, or any law of existence.

God does not need a tow truck to move your car.

Tell that to any adoptive parent. My goodness you struggle with these simple things.

Did God create Adam from the seed of a man and the egg of a woman?
I rest my case.

 

[utilyan]

Tell that to any adoptive parent. My goodness you struggle with these simple things.

Did God create Adam from the seed of a man and the egg of a woman?
I rest my case.

Jesus said anyone who does God's will is his brother and mother. So we can say couple billion mothers Jesus has.


Hebrews 2

14Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,



Who is Jesus' biological mother then? God the MOTHER?

 

[Particular]

Jesus said anyone who does God's will is his brother and mother. So we can say couple billion mothers Jesus has.


Hebrews 2

14Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,



Who is Jesus' biological mother then? God the MOTHER?

There is no biological connection to Mary. There is an umbilical connection so that God would be fed in the womb, however.
Do you believe in a miraculous conception so that no seed or egg was needed for God to become human?
Do you believe Adam was formed from dust rather than from seed and egg?
What part confuses you?

 

[MarysSon]

Context my son. Read the context and know they are Mary and Joseph's kids.
Or...live in denial and keep jumping the shark.

Okay - here is the FULL context:

Matt. 13:54-57
Coming to his hometown, he (Jesus) began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” And they took offense at him.

But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”

Sooooo, where does it says that they are the uterine siblings of Jesus??
Where does it say that Mary is their mother?
Where does it say that Joseph is their father??

Thee ONLY one who paternity is answered by these verse is that of JESUS.
When you read the accounts of the women at the foot of the cross with Mary – it shows that these men are the sons of the “other Mary”, who ic called Mary’s “sister” (Adelphe) and wife of Clopas/Alphaeus.

We KNOW that they aren’t uterine sisters because they are BOTH named Mary – even though “Adelphe” is used here.

You’ve got a LOT of ‘splainin’ to do . . .

 

[Particular]

Okay - here is the FULL context:

Matt. 13:54-57
Coming to his hometown, he (Jesus) began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked. “Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” And they took offense at him.

But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”

Sooooo, where does it says that they are the uterine siblings of Jesus??
Where does it say that Mary is their mother?
Where does it say that Joseph is their father??

Thee ONLY one who paternity is answered by these verse is that of JESUS.
When you read the accounts of the women at the foot of the cross with Mary – it shows that these men are the sons of the “other Mary”, who ic called Mary’s “sister” (Adelphe) and wife of Clopas/Alphaeus.

We KNOW that they aren’t uterine sisters because they are BOTH named Mary – even though “Adelphe” is used here.

You’ve got a LOT of ‘splainin’ to do . . .

Where does it say Mary is the uterine mother? [emoji16]
You make me laugh as you desperately push the unsupportable dogma of your church.

 

[utilyan]

There is no biological connection to Mary. There is an umbilical connection so that God would be fed in the womb, however.
Do you believe in a miraculous conception so that no seed or egg was needed for God to become human?
Do you believe Adam was formed from dust rather than from seed and egg?
What part confuses you?

"Do you believe in a miraculous conception so that no seed or egg was needed for God to become human?"
Indeed, In fact he needs no mother at all. Need not go thru childhood.

and ZAP himself here I am........... Which is the point of being seed of human beings!


"Do you believe Adam was formed from dust rather than from seed and egg?"
Seed and Eggs are formed from dust too. I'm sure things of atomic size can qualify as dust.


"What part confuses you?"
Let me tell you what you can't handle. The DNA make up could have been of a monkey it has no bearing GOD is in control.
Under making a point of Prophecy and Scriptural TRUTH however, Jesus Christ SHARES in the flesh and blood.

Under your fantasy. Jesus would not even be Jewish. He would be a Gentile. Your mother establishes you as JEWISH.

 

[MarysSon]

There is no biological connection to Mary. There is an umbilical connection so that God would be fed in the womb, however.
Do you believe in a miraculous conception so that no seed or egg was needed for God to become human?
Do you believe Adam was formed from dust rather than from seed and egg?
What part confuses you?

WRONG.

Jesus is the heir of David.
He HAD to be of the Davidic bloodline (John 7:42,Rev. 22:16) in order to fulfill prophecy.

He is even referred to as “Son of David” (Matt. 1:1, Mark 10:48, Rom. 1:3).

Jesus calls HIMSELF the “Son of MAN” (Matt. 20:28, Matt. 9:6, Mark 8:38, Luke 18:8).

YOUR nonsense that He wasn’t a human being from the bloodline of David is flat-out heresy.

 

[MarysSon]

Where does it say Mary is the uterine mother? [emoji16]
You make me laugh as you desperately push the unsupportable dogma of your church.

Couldn't find a verse, huh?

That's what I thought . . .

 

[Particular]

"Do you believe in a miraculous conception so that no seed or egg was needed for God to become human?"
Indeed, In fact he needs no mother at all. Need not go thru childhood.

and ZAP himself here I am........... Which is the point of being seed of human beings!


"Do you believe Adam was formed from dust rather than from seed and egg?"
Seed and Eggs are formed from dust too. I'm sure things of atomic size can qualify as dust.


"What part confuses you?"
Let me tell you what you can't handle. The DNA make up could have been of a monkey it has no bearing GOD is in control.
Under making a point of Prophecy and Scriptural TRUTH however, Jesus Christ SHARES in the flesh and blood.

Under your fantasy. Jesus would not even be Jewish. He would be a Gentile. Your mother establishes you as JEWISH.

God could have just shown up as a human. He chose to come according to his promise and his covenant.
Do you struggle with this?