Jesus is the Reason for Calvinism

[Humble Disciple]

...I wouldn't rule it out either.

What the heck?

 

[Iconoclast]

What the heck?

You do not speak for everyone.
You have your thoughts.
You are trying to promote discussion.
You are getting resistance.
You are on the right side of many of the issues.
There is much more to be said,then one liners.

 

[Humble Disciple]

You do not speak for everyone.
You have your thoughts.
You are trying to promote discussion.
You are getting resistance.
You are on the right side of many of the issues.
There is much more to be said,then one liners.

You're making Calvinists look bad. Arminians are nowhere near the same level as Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Van]

That verse is saying we are predestined unto faith, not predestined because of faith.

Utterly false, the concept of predestination is no where to be found. Thus your rebuttal is simply reading into the text, something not found. The preposition "en" is used to show instrumentality, or by which or with which something is accomplished, thus is translated as "through." Thus the action (being chosen) is accomplished by (by means of) or through faith in the truth.

 

[Van]

What did Jesus say about the rich young ruler after he'd left?

Matthew 19
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Irresistible grace doesn’t mean that God’s elect will never rebel, but that God’s grace is powerful enough to overcome the elect’s rebellion, transform their wills and desires, and lead them to ultimate salvation.

Non-germane response, thus a deflection rather than an answer. If irresistible grace were valid, and it is not, it would not be "hard" for a rich man, or any man to enter the kingdom. Irresistible grace is thus unbiblical false doctrine. Deflection will not change truth.

 

[Iconoclast]

You're making Calvinists look bad. Arminians are nowhere near the same level as Jehovah's Witnesses.

Listen there's no looking good or looking bad there's truth and there's error. The point of the illustration is everyone says or claims what they believe to be true so you have to look at the the Bible and see where the truth is found .
you're not going to find truth and error on both sides of the fence
a JW.denies the Trinity there's no ,well he might be right you might be right ,he's wrong.
Some people haven't come to truth yet.
some have come to some truth, and not all of it.
I personally believe everyone every believer is the calvinist but they don't know it yet. I believe that of the Five Points as you can see from the poll
some believe 2 pts, some believe 4,
some leave off this point or that.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Irresistible grace

 

[Humble Disciple]

Listen there's no looking good or looking bad there's truth and there's error. The point of the illustration is everyone says or claims what they believe to be true so you have to look at the the Bible and see where the truth is found .
you're not going to find truth and error on both sides of the fence
a JW.denies the Trinity there's no ,well he might be right you might be right ,he's wrong.
Some people haven't come to truth yet.
some have come to some truth, and not all of it.
I personally believe everyone every believer is the calvinist but they don't know it yet. I believe that of the Five Points as you can see from the poll
some believe 2 pts, some believe 4,
some leave off this point or that.

Calvinism vs. Arminianism isn't an essential matter to salvation.

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinism vs. Arminianism isn't an essential matter to salvation.

Again you are stating an opinion. Not everyone that professes to be a calvinist is a Christian not everyone that professes to being Arminian is a Christian.
Why not leave that to God.
I am not going to declare that truth is not essential, especially when Jesus declared it is so.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Utterly false, the concept of predestination is no where to be found.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

I don't know how this can be anymore clear. You are chosen unto salvation, rather than you choosing salvation. How do you interpret Romans 9?

 

[Humble Disciple]

Again you are stating an opinion. Not everyone that professes to be a calvinist is a Christian not everyone that professes to being Arminian is a Christian.
Why not leave that to God.

You compared Arminians to Jehovah's Witnsess, and I don't believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are saved.

 

[Van]

Calvinists would contend that, in the parable of the sowers, the good soil represents the elect's ability to accept the Gospel, due to God's enabling race. It's entirely because of God's grace, and not any merit on their own part.

Regarding unconditional election, how do you interpret Romans 9? I'm sorry if you've already answered this question.

Regarding limited atonement, Christ's death was sufficient enough to pay for an innumerable amount of people's sins, but it's applied to only the elect. There are numerous Bible verses which demonstrate this.

Matthew 23:13 says that the Pharisees attempt to put obstacles in the way to salvation, but God's elect, through His enabling grace, are able to overcome those obstacles.

Regarding perseverance of the saints, how do you expect that God will be able to preserve you in salvation without his enabling grace?

Irresistible grace doesn’t mean that God’s elect will never rebel, but that God’s grace is powerful enough to overcome the elect’s rebellion, transform their wills and desires, and lead them to ultimate salvation.

Calvinism reads into the parable of the sower that the fourth soil is elect. However, that is speculation read into the text to support Calvinist presupposition.

Unconditional Election of individuals is false doctrine, as 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says people are chosen for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth. This same doctrine is also found in James 2:5 where God chooses those poor to the world, rich in faith, and those who love God, thus heirs to the promise to those who love God.

Christ provided the means of salvation for all humanity but only those God chooses by reason of crediting their faith as righteousness are placed into Christ and are thus redeemed.

Once again, your response deflected but did not address the issue, how could they be entering is unable to seek God, and how could they be prevented from going in, if enabled by irresistible grace. No answer is possible, except that both the T and the I of the TULIP are bogus.

Once again, the answer to your question concerning perseverance, changes the definition of "enabling grace" from something that alters the unsaved such that they willingly believe, to something that preserves that faith after the person is placed into Christ. The answer from scripture, of course is 1 Peter 1:3-5 which says of those already born anew, God keeps them by protecting their faith.

 

[Van]

Yet another deflection, with no answer as to why Jesus teaches "irresitible grace" is bogus.

 

[Iconoclast]

You compared Arminians to Jehovah's Witnsess, and I don't believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are saved.

Where did I do that?
Read more carefully.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Yet another deflection, with no answer as to why Jesus teaches "irresitible grace" is bogus.

You are not even defining the term "irresistible grace" the same way that Reformed theology defines it, therefore no amount of Biblical evidence will be able to refute your strawman of irresistible grace.

 

[Van]

I don't know how this can be anymore clear. You are chosen unto salvation, rather than you choosing salvation. How do you interpret Romans 9?

Vicious disinformation post, behold the falsehood of Calvinism. No one said 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we choose salvation. It says God chooses us through or by reason of faith in the truth. Full Stop

 

[Van]

You are not even defining the term "irresistible grace" the same way that Reformed theology defines it, therefore no amount of Biblical evidence will be able to refute your strawman of irresistible grace.

Utterly false claim, as I presented the definition referenced by a Calvinist. It appears Calvinists are so ignorant of their own doctrine, they are unable to recognize it.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Unconditional Election of individuals is false doctrine

How do you interpret Romans 9?

1 Peter 1:3-5 which says of those already born anew, God keeps them by protecting their faith.

...and that's exactly what Reformed theology teaches about preservation of the saints.

I don't think you are understanding the terms the same way that Reformed theology means them. Instead, you are attacking strawmen.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Utterly false claim, as I presented the definition referenced by a Calvinist. It appears Calvinists are so ignorant of their own doctrine, they are unable to recognize it.

No, you just might be revealing your own prejudice against Calvinism. I'm not insisting that you must agree with Calvinism.

 

[Humble Disciple]

Vicious disinformation post, behold the falsehood of Calvinism. No one said 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we choose salvation. It says God chooses us through or by reason of faith in the truth. Full Stop

Again, how do you interpret Romans 9?