Jesus & Salvation By Faith ALONE

[DHK]

Not in any Bible I ever read.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[DHK]

Antichrist

Do you know who the anti Christ is; there are many antichrist. The anti Christ our all believers who follow religion and reject the Christ/anointing of God with in them.

Yes, there are many that bring not "the doctrine of Christ." They do not believe in the deity of Christ. It has nothing to do with organized religion. How do you believe a person receives the anointing of God, and how do you know for sure if you have this anointing?

Those who lost their first love. 2Th 2:11 is speaking of now, of the all the ages past, present and future who reject the anointing of Jesus (David type anointing) and replace with the anointing of Saul.

2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

For this cause God shall send them...
No, it is a future event, just as the verbs indicate.
Read the context.

2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
--Damned, condemned, without eternal life, separated from God forever.
This goes against your beliefs. Isn't it odd that you would use the exact Scriptures that speak directly against the beliefs of a universalist.

 

[Benoni]

Yes, there are many that bring not "the doctrine of Christ." They do not believe in the deity of Christ. It has nothing to do with organized religion. How do you believe a person receives the anointing of God, and how do you know for sure if you have this anointing?

Let me ask you a simple question? Where does it say anywhere in scripture where God calls system? Give me one valid scriptural reference where God called a religious system? Even in the OT the anointing was chosen by God. God calls men, and He anoints who He chooses not who men choose.

The Bishops are anointed by men (systems/religions/seminaries, Pope’s etc.) just like Saul who was chosen by the flesh/people. That is a far cry from a David anointing. Men did not choose David, God did when he was a small child. Religion chooses their anointed but the true anointed are God given.

God uses Babylon. Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.



David was anointed by God long before he was king; David was a man who wrote thousands of psalms that are used to inspire so many awesome sermons as well as songs sung in churches all though out the world through many generations since they were written.

The Ark of God was at David’s home, in a tent on His porch; this was not the normal tradition. What was normal was the High Priest once a year entered the Holy of Holies and no man or priest or King had such immanent excess to the presence of God as David.


I have found men of God that I know anointed by the deepness of their understanding not because they have been voted in or out by some church committee. David walked for many years and knew He had an anointing; but he kept it to himself and understood that Saul was God’s anointed; that is until the appointed time.

We are better off to wait for God to anoint God’s chosen vessel then to anoint our own. Also let us not forget Solomon who was also anointed of God; but because of his marring and turning his heart to false idols he became corrupt. Reminds me of all the different religions out there that man has married into; there is only one way; Christ with in.

 

[Benoni]

For this cause God shall send them...
No, it is a future event, just as the verbs indicate.
Read the context.

God is omni-present so you verb means nothing.

 

[Benoni]

2 Thessalonians 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
--Damned, condemned, without eternal life, separated from God forever.
This goes against your beliefs. Isn't it odd that you would use the exact Scriptures that speak directly against the beliefs of a universalist.

No. The word damn also means judged or probated; God’s justice is just.

How do these "saviours" judge the fleshly man, Esau? To answer this, we need to know what the word "judgment" means. In the New Testament, the word used is "Krisis", which we have changed to "Crisis". In English, it means "a critical period of time, a decisive moment, turning point, deciding time." In Greek, it means "a separating, choosing, deciding, determining, judging, trial, judgment."

In the New Testament, the word judgment (Krisis) is used to denote the deciding time, trial, or probation of man. This time of judgment is spoken of in scripture in such a way as to indicate that it is given to man as a blessing and a favor. It is shown as a cause for great rejoicing and thanksgiving. In Psalm 96, all nature and people are told to exult and rejoice "Before the Lord, for He cometh to judge the world. He shall judge the world with righteousness and the people with his truth."

Judgment time as a period of great rejoicing is in striking contrast to the orthodox view of a time of horror and dread! It would almost seem we were reading from a different Bible. No — it is the same Bible, but it is "the good tidings of great joy" that the angels said "shall be unto all people." These good tidings have been obscured by the traditions of men and clouded over by carnal reasonings. As a result, we have been taught that only a remnant would be saved and the remainder of mankind would suffer the tortures of an everlasting hell.

 

[DHK]

God is omni-present so you verb means nothing.

My only conclusion: Scripture means nothing to you.
You draw your own conclusions on your vain imagination.

 

[Jedi Knight]

You will find that Fundamentalist Christianity will strongly disagree with false teaching as this. Universalist, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness fall into this cult teaching and should be strongly opposed.

 

[DHK]

No. The word damn also means judged or probated; God’s justice is just.

Judgment time as a period of great rejoicing is in striking contrast to the orthodox view of a time of horror and dread!

You have been seriously deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth]/b], that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

You give no regard to context do you?
Do you really believe this is a time of rejoicing?
Do you really believe that the word "damned" has another meaning--a meaning of rejoicing, when God says it is because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved.????

 

[Benoni]

My only conclusion: Scripture means nothing to you.
You draw your own conclusions on your vain imagination.

Of course it does. I just do not believe Jesus is a monster.

 

[Benoni]

You will find that Fundamentalist Christianity will strongly disagree with false teaching as this. Universalist, Mormon, Jehovah's Witness fall into this cult teaching and should be strongly opposed.

I see you as a cultist. So what does that prove?

Here is you chance to debate a Christian Universalist and all you do is lower yourself to personal attacks? Is this all you have?

 

[Jedi Knight]

You have been seriously deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth]/b], that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is strong words indeed but some seem to forget the scripture "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God" Rom. 11:22 God will not always strive with us.

 

[Benoni]

You have been seriously deceived.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth]/b], that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

You give no regard to context do you?
Do you really believe this is a time of rejoicing?
Do you really believe that the word "damned" has another meaning--a meaning of rejoicing, when God says it is because they received not the love of the truth that they might be saved.????

Yes, By the way God does not "might or maybe" anything He does or he doest not. If you look at the Gree you will see the word might was added by the translator.

“Make a joyful noise unto the Lord, ALL THE EARTH: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise. Let the sea (raging, surging multitudes of humanity) roar, and the fullness thereof; THE WORLD, AND THEY THAT DWELL THEREIN. Let the floods (armies) clap their hands, let the hills (small kingdoms, third world nations) be joyful together before the Lord; for HE COMETH TO JUDGE THE EARTH: WITH RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL HE JUDGE THE WORLD, and the people with equity” (Ps. 98:4,8-9).

 

[Jedi Knight]

I see you as a cultist. So what does that prove?

Here is you chance to debate a Christian Universalist and all you do is lower yourself to personal attacks? Is this all you have?

Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness;" Your not seeking truth but defending heresy and calling true christianaty false. So I hope you will renounce this false teaching and that God would grant you repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Benoni]

This is strong words indeed but some seem to forget the scripture "Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God" Rom. 11:22 God will not always strive with us.

Your view of an angry God is so one sided. God is a balanced God and a God of love. Yes he has a wrath BUT... The wrath of God is the wrath of the lamb; have you ever seen a lamb get mad.

 

[DHK]

Let me ask you a simple question? Where does it say anywhere in scripture where God calls system? Give me one valid scriptural reference where God called a religious system? Even in the OT the anointing was chosen by God. God calls men, and He anoints who He chooses not who men choose.

We will stick to the NT. In three missionary journeys Paul started ca. 100 local churches. Each one was a "system" in and of itself. They had their own congregational government, pastors, way of discipline, way of handling money, etc. There are three epistles called Pastoral epistles, written to give pastors instructions on how to keep order in the local churches.

The pastors were chosen or appointed.
Acts 14:23 And when they had appointed for them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they had believed.

But you don't know what it means to be anointed. If you did you would have said so. Are you anointed? If so, how do you know? Why do you avoid my questions?

The Bishops are anointed by men (systems/religions/seminaries, Pope’s etc.) just like Saul who was chosen by the flesh/people. That is a far cry from a David anointing. Men did not choose David, God did when he was a small child. Religion chooses their anointed but the true anointed are God given.

Stick to the NT.
Bishop in the NT is another word for pastor, just a different aspect of the same work. It means overseer.

1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
--Many places in the Bible Paul chose a pastor if he met the qualifications given in the rest of the chapter.

God uses Babylon. Jeremiah 51:7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the LORD's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.

Your allusions to the OT here are useless when speaking of the NT church.

I have found men of God that I know anointed by the deepness of their understanding not because they have been voted in or out by some church committee.

OK, anointing comes from study of the Word of God. That is part of it.
Do you have the anointing of the Holy Spirit? How do you know?

We are better off to wait for God to anoint God’s chosen vessel then to anoint our own. Also let us not forget Solomon who was also anointed of God; but because of his marring and turning his heart to false idols he became corrupt. Reminds me of all the different religions out there that man has married into; there is only one way; Christ with in.

Your OT example is useless.
So one can sit on their rear-end in their favorite rocker and just wait. And then God will suddenly anoint him. Is that how it will work?
Are you anointed? How do you know?

 

[DHK]

Yes, By the way God does not "might or maybe" anything He does or he doest not. If you look at the Gree you will see the word might was added by the translator.

The use of the subjunctive doesn't mean the absence of possibilities.
In other words, just because the word "might" is being used, God's promised is not diminished one iota.
For example: I cut your brake line that you MIGHT not stop.
If I cut your break line you WILL not stop. There is no doubt about it.
Your ignorance of the English language does not make an excuse for a denial of the word of God. You can study the Greek and find a much more accurate rendering.

 

[Benoni]

DHK. We will stick to the NT. In three missionary journeys Paul started ca. 100 local churches. Each one was a "system" in and of itself. They had their own congregational government, pastors, way of discipline, way of handling money, etc. There are three epistles called Pastoral epistles, written to give pastors instructions on how to keep order in the local churches.

The pastors were chosen or appointed.
Acts 14:23 And when they had appointed for them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, on whom they had believed.

But you don't know what it means to be anointed. If you did you would have said so. Are you anointed? If so, how do you know? Why do you avoid my questions?

No I am not going to limit God to the NT. If I am anointed that is us to God’s spirit to say not me or you or your man made system.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)

And yes this did happen in the early Church; but what you are seeing here is a Saul anointing. Notice they were local churches not systems with Popes man made bishops; they became very corrupt and no longer follow God's Spirit with in.

Anointing means Christ. Christ is with in; not without. Are you led by the spirit of God or the spirit of religion? When was the last time God spirit revealed something new to you?

"Whom He did foreknow He also did predestinate to be conformed to the IMAGE OF HIS SON, that He might be the firstborn among MANY BRETHREN. Moreover, whom He did predestinate them He also called, and whom He called He also justified, and whom He justified He GLORIFIED" (Rom. 8:29-30).

Notice it is God who is calling not man and his 10,000 religious man made system.
.

"As many as are led BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD, THEY ARE THE SONS OF GOD." Christ in you is the hope of glory. Christ in me is the hope of glory.

 

[Benoni]

The use of the subjunctive doesn't mean the absence of possibilities.
In other words, just because the word "might" is being used, God's promised is not diminished one iota.
For example: I cut your brake line that you MIGHT not stop.
If I cut your break line you WILL not stop. There is no doubt about it.
Your ignorance of the English language does not make an excuse for a denial of the word of God. You can study the Greek and find a much more accurate rendering.

You are not God. You can "might' all you want to.

 

[Benoni]

DHK.

So one can sit on their rear-end in their favorite rocker and just wait. And then God will suddenly anoint him. Is that how it will work?
Are you anointed? How do you know?

You have no faith in God? Is God dead to you or cannot he not reveal His present truth to you. Do you know what Adam's sin was? He heard someone else other then God and followed that voice. in other words religion.

Take Luther one of the great men of God in Christian history,


You see the difference between Lutherans and Luther is Luther heard God and followed God where God led him. Luther was a great man of God; Luther was in what the Bible calls the present truth.

Many base their faith on Luther or some religious man/system; but where does it say we are suppose to base our faith on man, or Luther

Let me used God’s Word to show you more what I mean. Moses was anointed by God. He put Moses here as an example understand who this awesome God really is.

Psalm 103:7
He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.

Moses knew God face to face; not like the children of Israel who knew only God’s acts. The blind lead the blind in religion today; they know only God’s acts…

Again I repeat seeing you feal the OT is so dead.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.


Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)


God’s Word is progressive; but instead of hearing God’s Word like Luther did; men follow Luther as if he was Jesus.

Its like God wants you to drive a band new car, but your still riding a model T; because you refuse to believe God’s Word has any more to say.


2 Peter 1:12
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Present truth; in other words as the truth is revealed you move with it. When a truth is reveled to you receive it and walk not with mans traditions; but what the spirit of truth reveals. Something’s are beyond what the human mind can receive; that is why God sent His spirit to lead and guide us in all truth. The anointing or the Christ is with in you; if you against the anointing; you are anti Christ.

Luther was not perfect when it comes to his life and his understanding; but Luther heard God and walked in the present truth God revealed to him. Not like the modern day Lutherans who hear only Luther and walk after Luther not the Christ with in them; they are so Lutheran, their worn out wine skins cannot receive the new wine of revelation. God is speaking to day with His present truth; but the vast majorities of God’s people only hear men and reject God’s anointing.


God’s deep truth are heard by individuals (singular) not by systems of religions (plural ears). Hearing is not with natural ears, carnal ears, or even religious ears.


The elect are those who hear; the word “hear” is mentioned 46 times in the Book of Revelation. Hear singular; not plural; notice the word over comer is so often used with the word hear singular. The word see is mentioned 22 times and this has nothing to do with natural hearing and seeing,

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


Revelation 2:29
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 3:3
Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Revelation 3:6
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Revelation 3:13
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Revelation 3:20
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Revelation 3:22
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Revelation 3:21-22 (in Context) Revelation 3 (Whole Chapter)



The elect of God are not all believers. The elect of God our the overcomers; only those see and hear what the spirit is saying to the out called. They are a far cry from the vast majority of believers who think because they are simply believing because they are the elect.

 

[DHK]

You are not God. You can "might' all you want to.

Is that the best you can do?
God made a declarative statement--a statement of fact, out of which there is no wiggle worm--no room for escape. You try and use the English language or escape. It fails you because of your ignorance of the English language. You have run out of avenues of debate of defending your position, so the best you can do is name-calling. That is really pitiful, and that is what it says about "universalism"--hollow, vain, has no foundation, and in the end has no answers but to end up calling others names.