Joel believe Steve Jobs went to Heaven....for real!

[preacher4truth]

No, what is too bad is that you lead a flock of a local church that depends on you for discipleship.

OK.

Speaking of two faced and hypocritical, if you talked to your congregation the way you post, you would be out the door within a week of any true New Testament church.

I have no need to rebuke a false gospel among them. That said, they are a true NT church.

I see seeking reconciliation with you is beating a dead horse. Wonder why.

I've shown to you examination is not only under the Lord's Supper. It's a lifestyle.

 

[saturneptune]

OK.



I have no need to rebuke a false gospel among them. That said, they are a true NT church.

I see seeking reconciliation with you is beating a dead horse. Wonder why.

I've shown to you examination is not only under the Lord's Supper. It's a lifestyle.

So what type of evil lifestyle do you think I am leading? You will be happy to know I have stopped beating my wife, burning down churches, and stealing from the offering plate.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have to say, I find it amusing to find Calvinists insisting they are to "examine themselves" for salvation.

If they are "elect," then according to the teaching of their doctrine, then they have nothing to worry about.

On the other hand, if they were to examine themselves and find the disturbing truth that they are "not elect," what can they do about it?

We are only doing what the Lord wrote to us to do though!
5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral [g]excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.
2 peter 1 Nasb

 

[preacher4truth]

So what type of evil lifestyle do you think I am leading?

You've only examined me, something you are against, while preaching we are only to examine ourselves, while still examining me. So why do you ask brother?

I've not claimed you are living an evil lifestyle. I have however attempted reconciliation with you, even while you bring up unfounded accusations against me, and I still seek the same. Whatever grudges you hold to me, I repent to you and look for fellowship.

Our church has reflected self-examination and putting aside easy-believism and seeking the Lord in prayer and guidance. I am sorry you feel the way you do about them and about me. If you want to continue to assault me, then the Lord has allowed it, and who am I to fight that. I digress.

I am for fighting false doctrine, and will continue to do so all the while seeking reconciliation of others in these times.

 

[Yeshua1]

Thus 2 Corinthians 13:5.

I cannot find ANY NT passage that states to me that a real Christian will be devoid of any evisence to support a professing faith, for even the thief on the cross wanted Jesus to bring him into His Kingdom while dieing!

 

[preacher4truth]

I cannot find ANY NT passage that states to me that a real Christian will be devoid of any evisence to support a professing faith, for even the thief on the cross wanted Jesus to bring him into His Kingdom while dieing!

Good point.

2 Cor. 13:5 is a counter to the excuse of carnal living garnered by the carnal from 1 Cor.

 

[Yeshua1]

Good point.

2 Cor. 13:5 is a counter to the excuse of carnal living garnered by the carnal from 1 Cor.

A true Christian can still submit to the lusts of their flesh, but the truth is that is NOT NATURAL bent for them now though, and they WILL at some definite time come back to the Lord in repentence/confession, as they will be sick of 'wallowing in the mud"

Those just professing Him will stay in the mud!

 

[preacher4truth]

A true Christian can still submit to the lusts of their flesh, but the truth is that is NOT NATURAL bent for them now though, and they WILL at some definite time come back to the Lord in repentence/confession, as they will be sick of 'wallowing in the mud"

Those just professing Him will stay in the mud!

Truth. This has been the forefront here lately, that those who are His will turn back to Him, and that there is no comfort or assurance to be maintained otherwise.

 

[saturneptune]

You've only examined me, something you are against, while preaching we are only to examine ourselves, while still examining me. So why do you ask brother?

I've not claimed you are living an evil lifestyle. I have however attempted reconciliation with you, even while you bring up unfounded accusations against me, and I still seek the same. Whatever grudges you hold to me, I repent to you and look for fellowship.

Our church has reflected self-examination and putting aside easy-believism and seeking the Lord in prayer and guidance. I am sorry you feel the way you do about them and about me. If you want to continue to assault me, then the Lord has allowed it, and who am I to fight that. I digress.

I am for fighting false doctrine, and will continue to do so all the while seeking reconciliation of others in these times.

Why do you think easy believism, as you put it, is so rampant? Why would anyone bother? Sometimes common sense has to play a part? If someone is going to bother to join a local church, why would they attend or give and not give it their all? If their heart is not in it, why not sleep in on Sunday morning and watch an NFL game at noon? Why would someone go to all the trouble of joining a church to serve the Lord and do it half way? Why not just stay home? What could be the possible motive behind that? Maybe it is the culture in West Kentucky that differs from other places. In other words, if you are not going to do it right, do not do it at all.

 

[preacher4truth]

Why do you think easy believism, as you put it, is so rampant? Why would anyone bother?

This is what is preached here and elsewhere.

Why would anyone bother with what exactly?

Sometimes common sense has to play a part? If someone is going to bother to join a local church, why would they attend or give and not give it their all?

Because here and elsewhere it is actually PREACHED there needs to be NO evidence of salvation brother. They are told they are on their way to heaven now, and after baptism or not, they are never seen again. THAT is what I am against.

If their heart is not in it, why not sleep in on Sunday morning and watch an NFL game at noon?

They do this and they are assured of heaven because they prayed. It is supported by preachers.

Why would someone go to all the trouble of joining a church to serve the Lord and do it half way?

They've only joined by baptism but do not attend. They are secure in their prayer, and if they have doubts the preacher assures them they are saved based on their prayer.

Why not just stay home?

See above.

What could be the possible motive behind that?

Again see above and what I've been saying all along. I am not against you SN.

Maybe it is the culture in West Kentucky that differs from other places. In other words, if you are not going to do it right, do not do it at all.

They don't do it at all nor do they do it right. They've been lead to believe they are now going to heaven no matter what.

 

[saturneptune]

This is what is preached here and elsewhere.

Why would anyone bother with what exactly?



Because here and elsewhere it is actually PREACHED there needs to be NO evidence of salvation brother. They are told they are on their way to heaven now, and after baptism or not, they are never seen again. THAT is what I am against.



They do this and they are assured of heaven because they prayed. It is supported by preachers.




They've only joined by baptism but do not attend. They are secure in their prayer, and if they have doubts the preacher assures them they are saved based on their prayer.



See above.



Again see above and what I've been saying all along. I am not against you SN.



They don't do it at all nor do they do it right. They've been lead to believe they are now going to heaven no matter what.

Well then, we agree on more than I thought. It is not perfection, but the best we can do. It is also the same at work. I never thought it was right to join a company and just coast along. I worked 36 years for various departments of the US government, and made it a point to use every minute towards some task that helped the goal of the department I was working for. I just believe that if one carries the label Christian, one should live it to the fullest, otherwise, stay at home. Now, I work for an adult day care. I use every minute of work trying to make a difference in someone's life. I do not watch the clock to look forward to getting off and going home. I do not know where you live or your culture. It is just a general principle in life, if you are going to do anything, give it your all.

 

[InTheLight]

This is what is preached here and elsewhere.

Because here and elsewhere it is actually PREACHED there needs to be NO evidence of salvation brother. They are told they are on their way to heaven now, and after baptism or not, they are never seen again. THAT is what I am against.

They've been lead to believe they are now going to heaven no matter what.

You keep saying this. You also say you are a Baptist pastor. So how would you know that churches in your area and elsewhere preach that one only need to say a prayer and show no fruit and they are saved? Are you secretly attending their services?

 

[Iconoclast]

You keep saying this. You also say you are a Baptist pastor. So how would you know that churches in your area and elsewhere preach that one only need to say a prayer and show no fruit and they are saved? Are you secretly attending their services?

As you come across church people in town you can tell much about them and their church by just speaking with them.
Many as they prepared for ministry have already searched out what churches are around them as there is no need to build upon another mans foundation.

 

[preacher4truth]

You keep saying this. You also say you are a Baptist pastor. So how would you know that churches in your area and elsewhere preach that one only need to say a prayer and show no fruit and they are saved? Are you secretly attending their services?

By personal experience, and from other avenues. I've also been in many churches here, none secretly, some by invitation. Perhaps I've attended your church and heard it as well, or, perhaps I've heard it from you, personally? Or is there no evidence either way?

 

[preacher4truth]

As you come across church people in town you can tell much about them and their church by just speaking with them.
Many as they prepared for ministry have already searched out what churches are around them as there is no need to build upon another mans foundation.

And this we have done as well. :thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

Truth. This has been the forefront here lately, that those who are His will turn back to Him, and that there is no comfort or assurance to be maintained otherwise.

what is interesting is thast BOTH Non reformed eternal security and Reformed version of saints enduring unto the end would have us confirm that we are really in the faith and saved to start with, so where do others get easy believism they cling to from?

seems like we have a lack of assurance on both extremes here...

As some say that we can be saved, but assured of keeping it unless we keep all the law, have sabbath, right rules followed etc, while others see us saved, but cannot know that we are!

 

[Jedi Knight]

Not too many in the church like these tests, they would rather hold onto easy believeism and the license it gives to live a carnal lifestyle.

Amen! Funny also that some think you can NEVER know if someone is saved YET we are commanded "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers."

 

[Jedi Knight]

Why can we not know that we are elect? The Bible says that we can KNOW that we are saved.

Amen sister! How clear is this scripture on that?
Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

 

[preacher4truth]

Amen! Funny also that some think you can NEVER know if someone is saved YET we are commanded "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers."

oh...don't you judge now!!!!! Tsk tsk!!!! :tongue3:

Now, that is talking about the lost.

As far as professing believers, some here hate the evidence thing. They don't like the fact Scripture addresses evidence for the lost and the saved. These are evidences we are to examine ourselves by. We are NOT told to look back and see if we prayed a prayer. We ARE called to make sure we are CALLED and ELECT 2 Peter 1:20. We are not called to excuse our carnality by using 1 Corinthians as an excuse, but we are pointed to 2 Cor. 13:5 as evidence that THEY THEMSELVES needed to make certain they were actually regenerate.[

So what exactly those of said ilk actually examine? How they framed the words of the prayer? That may sound silly, but the fact is, that these who believe this actually point others back to 'remember when you prayed that prayer!'