John 6:37,65

[Reformed1689]

Okay, the scriptures define sin quite plainly. Find the quotes and post them for the rest of us to see. Take your time.

If you can't get it done, I will come back and do it for you.

Pretty sure this has been done for you alraedy. Psalms state that we are born in sin, we are wicked to the core. There is none that are righteous NO NOT ONE. Those are all quotes from Scripture.

 

[JD731]

Pretty sure this has been done for you alraedy. Psalms state that we are born in sin, we are wicked to the core. There is none that are righteous NO NOT ONE. Those are all quotes from Scripture.

<<<SIGH>>> Having a copy of the scriptures is not doing you fellows any good if you are going to the psalms for your doctrine on sin. First of all the Psalms are not addressed to you or about you, except possibly is a very generalized way. Second, The Psalms were written without the present age in mind, so if you think you are going to find yourself in them where they directly apply to you then you are wrong. Thirdly, the Psalms were all written under the law of God, which was his operative principle of divine dealing with his people Israel when they were penned and /or put together. Fourthly, all the prophecies in the Psalms that speak of future things transcends this present age as if it has never even happened. This present age, from the cross to the day of the LORD, is a "mystery that has been hidden from ages past. I did not say that, God did through the voice of his scriptures penned by the apostle Paul in Ephesians and other epistles. Therefore I am not guessing about this and I am not wrong about it. Fifthly, for the Psalms to be true they depend on the nationhood of his people Israel, because the Psalm is about his covenanted people, which is not you or me.

3 For this cause (the formation of the church of Jesus Christ, his body, with a combination of Jews and gentiles, which is a new thing) I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

THINK! If this would have been known in the Psalms, it would not be a mystery and Paul would have been accused of you as being blind, like you are accusing me.

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

You guys do not even believe in multiple ages in the economy of God.

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

You guys do not even know how blind Calvinism is making you.

I have more to say about this later.

 

[Silverhair]

I know by now that that is exactly what you are doing. The text is shown and then you demand to know more before you will accept what God says. This entire dialogue is you demanding from God that which He keeps to Himself and from us He requires faith.
When I identify your behavior as being similar to the Pharisees, I am not wrong.
The text tells us what we need to know. God has mercy on whom he has mercy and he hardens whom he hardens. That is God's choice and neither you nor I are on a need to know basis with God. We need to accept the low position we have with God.

So I will ask you Austin who does God show mercy to and who does He harden? And on what basis does He do so? Calvinists think they have all the answers so give it a go. I will admit your attempt at self-righteousness is amusing.

 

[Yeshua1]

Meaning we are born in sin. We have it from birth. We are not born sinless. That is a heresy.

That would fit though his Pel theology!

 

[Yeshua1]

So on what basis does He harden some and not others.

His own sovereign pleasure and purposes!

 

[Yeshua1]

Why do you demand that God tell you? Does God owe you an answer before you can believe his word?

Romans 9:14-33 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.” And as Isaiah predicted, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us offspring, we would have been like Sodom and become like Gomorrah.” What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousnessdid not succeed in reaching that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone, as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.”

We have to live with the mystery.
We do, however, know the purpose for Pharaoh's heart being hardened.

For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”

I find it very telling that you refuse to accept God's word and require more before you can believe. That is the very same trait of the Pharisee's.

Potter and the Clay?

 

[Yeshua1]

I am confused by your post if you think "sin nature" is mentioned somewhere in it. What is being described is the "natural man," who is a man born of a man and a woman in the physical realm but has not been born again of the Spirit of God and become a son of God.

My charge against you is proven more and more with each comment. Calvinists makes it up as they go.

Are we not sinners by birth and choice, and that is why Jesus had to come Virgin Birth!

 

[Yeshua1]

So I will ask you Austin who does God show mercy to and who does He harden? And on what basis does He do so? Calvinists think they have all the answers so give it a go. I will admit your attempt at self-righteousness is amusing.

is the Lord wrong then in making decisions in regards to salvation, can you do better?

 

[Yeshua1]

So I will ask you Austin who does God show mercy to and who does He harden? And on what basis does He do so? Calvinists think they have all the answers so give it a go. I will admit your attempt at self-righteousness is amusing.

Does God actually need to give to us His reasons, doers He owe that to us?

 

[Yeshua1]

<<<SIGH>>> Having a copy of the scriptures is not doing you fellows any good if you are going to the psalms for your doctrine on sin. First of all the Psalms are not addressed to you or about you, except possibly is a very generalized way. Second, The Psalms were written without the present age in mind, so if you think you are going to find yourself in them where they directly apply to you then you are wrong. Thirdly, the Psalms were all written under the law of God, which was his operative principle of divine dealing with his people Israel when they were penned and /or put together. Fourthly, all the prophecies in the Psalms that speak of future things transcends this present age as if it has never even happened. This present age, from the cross to the day of the LORD, is a "mystery that has been hidden from ages past. I did not say that, God did through the voice of his scriptures penned by the apostle Paul in Ephesians and other epistles. Therefore I am not guessing about this and I am not wrong about it. Fifthly, for the Psalms to be true they depend on the nationhood of his people Israel, because the Psalm is about his covenanted people, which is not you or me.

3 For this cause (the formation of the church of Jesus Christ, his body, with a combination of Jews and gentiles, which is a new thing) I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

THINK! If this would have been known in the Psalms, it would not be a mystery and Paul would have been accused of you as being blind, like you are accusing me.

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

You guys do not even believe in multiple ages in the economy of God.

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

You guys do not even know how blind Calvinism is making you.

I have more to say about this later.

if we were not sinners, why does scripture state that while we were all sinners, Jesus died for us?

 

[Silverhair]

His own sovereign pleasure and purposes!

Which is just a non answer. Want to try again

 

[Silverhair]

Does God actually need to give to us His reasons, doers He owe that to us?

Well your only answer seems to be it is all mystery. But then you claim to know that you are one of the elect. You Calvinists really should get your act together.

 

[AustinC]

So I will ask you Austin who does God show mercy to and who does He harden? And on what basis does He do so? Calvinists think they have all the answers so give it a go. I will admit your attempt at self-righteousness is amusing.

God answers this for you. Either you accept God's answer or you keep pushing God to answer more and more of your questions until you refuse to believe (Pharisee behavior).
Romans 9:15-16 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

There is God's answer. You have to either accept this or not. You may think God hasn't given you enough information. Too bad. It's what God provides and we live with this.

Silverhair, your contention is against God and no one else.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning -
This thread will be closed no sooner than 730 PM EDT/ 430 PDT

 

[Yeshua1]

Which is just a non answer. Want to try again

The scriptures are a non answer, as that is what they stated!

 

[Yeshua1]

Well your only answer seems to be it is all mystery. But then you claim to know that you are one of the elect. You Calvinists really should get your act together.

its one of the mysterious Hidden things known only to God, and getting saved confirms was one of the elect!

 

[JD731]

if we were not sinners, why does scripture state that while we were all sinners, Jesus died for us?

That is not what I said. I said God is not addressing us or explaining sin in the Psalms.

You guys can read better than you are showing here. I know it. You are smarter than me. How he has purposed to form his church in this age by including believing Jews and believing gentiles in the resurrected Lord Jesus, after he has been put to death for the sins of the whole world was a mystery in past ages and only revealed at the beginning of this age, the beginning when Jesus rose from the dead. The scriptures plainly say it and I will show you when I have more time.

 

[AustinC]

That is not what I said. I said God is not addressing us or explaining sin in the Psalms.

You guys can read better than you are showing here. I know it. You are smarter than me. How he has purposed to form his church in this age by including believing Jews and believing gentiles in the resurrected Lord Jesus, after he has been put to death for the sins of the whole world was a mystery in past ages and only revealed at the beginning of this age, the beginning when Jesus rose from the dead. The scriptures plainly say it and I will show you when I have more time.

I have bolded in red the two statements that you can try prove for me.
1) God is not addressing us or explaining sin in the Psalms.

Explain how the Psalms do not address us.
Show how the Psalms do not explain sin.

2) he has been put to death for the sins of the whole world

Here you sound like a universalist.
If all sins are put to death, how can God justify sending anyone to hell?

 

[Silverhair]

is the Lord wrong then in making decisions in regards to salvation, can you do better?

Can you answer the question or would it reveal to much of what is wrong with Calvinism?

 

[Silverhair]

The scriptures are a non answer, as that is what they stated!

Your the one that keeps beating the drum so give your reasons.