John Gerstner's Unbiblical Nonsense!

[Reformed1689]

Ah, so you're qualified to cast the first stone. I assure you I'm not.

Again, taking things out of context. Not to mention it is likely that is not even part of original Scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

God says He does not take pleasure in the judgment of the wicked. You can listen to Him or you can listen to yourself.
I know who I'm listening to.

Except judgement and justice are not the same word. Take what we actually say, not what you try to make us say.

 

[Dave G]

Wow...
This thread has a lot of fighting in it.

Time to go.

 

[AustinC]

God says He does not take pleasure in the judgment of the wicked. You can listen to Him or you can listen to yourself.
I know who I'm listening to.

That is not what we are talking about. We both agree that God does not take pleasure in casting people to hell.

We are discussing if God rejoices in His justice. To say no is to say that God doesn't rejoice in his perfection. A just God is perfect. An unjust God is evil.
Therefore God rejoices in His justice and we will rejoice in God's justice.

 

[AustinC]

Wow...
This thread has a lot of fighting in it.

Time to go.

Welcome to the Reformation, Dave.

 

[Tsalagi]

Except judgement and justice are not the same word. Take what we actually say, not what you try to make us say.

Thank you for this perfect example of eisegesis and mishandling of scripture. May everyone take note.
You assert a fallacy and then attempt to prove it with a verse that addresses the chosen people of God under the Sinai/Mosaic Covenant, which has nothing to do with eternal salvation. Bravo.

I see. So in your view if Joshua's audience members chose to worship the gods of Egypt or the Amorites instead of the God of Israel they wouldn't be lost?

 

[Tsalagi]

That is not what we are talking about. We both agree that God does not take pleasure in casting people to hell.

We are discussing if God rejoices in His justice. To say no is to say that God doesn't rejoice in his perfection. A just God is perfect. An unjust God is evil.
Therefore God rejoices in His justice and we will rejoice in God's justice.

No, we are discussing if we will rejoice in watching loved ones suffer eternal conscious torment. God will not be rejoicing, but Gerstner says we will due to sanctification. Sorry, that's not in the Bible.

 

[Tsalagi]

Again, taking things out of context. Not to mention it is likely that is not even part of original Scripture.

The context is judging fellow believers. You have shown nothing otherwise, except to indicate that it's OK for you to judge others because you think your own house is in order. I don't share your confidence.

 

[Reformed1689]

No, we are discussing if we will rejoice in watching loved ones suffer eternal conscious torment. God will not be rejoicing, but Gerstner says we will due to sanctification. Sorry, that's not in the Bible.

That is not what Gerstner said.

 

[Reformed1689]

The context is judging fellow believers. You have shown nothing otherwise, except to indicate that it's OK for you to judge others because you think your own house is in order. I don't share your confidence.

Then we disagree on Matthew 7.

 

[Tsalagi]

That is not what Gerstner said.

" ... when you are in heaven you will be so sanctified that you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in the display of the justice of God."

 

[Tsalagi]

Then we disagree on Matthew 7.

If you don't think Jesus is talking about refraining from judging others, we certainly do disagree. The passage could hardly be clearer.

 

[Reformed1689]

" ... when you are in heaven you will be so sanctified that you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in the display of the justice of God."

Exactly, but here is what you are making him say: "When you are in heaven you will be so sanctified that you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in her suffering." See the difference?

 

[AustinC]

I see. So in your view if Joshua's audience members chose to worship the gods of Egypt or the Amorites instead of the God of Israel they wouldn't be lost?

They would die in sins because justification has always been by faith, not by works.
If you grasped the covenants of God you would do a much better job of interpreting scripture.

 

[AustinC]

No, we are discussing if we will rejoice in watching loved ones suffer eternal conscious torment. God will not be rejoicing, but Gerstner says we will due to sanctification. Sorry, that's not in the Bible.

That is not what Gerstner said, nor what I have said.
Do we rejoice in the justice of God? If not, we declare God imperfect because we despise God's justice.

 

[AustinC]

" ... when you are in heaven you will be so sanctified that you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in the display of the justice of God."

I thoroughly rejoice in the justice of God, even while weeping over the unrepentant sinner.

 

[Tsalagi]

Exactly, but here is what you are making him say: "When you are in heaven you will be so sanctified that you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in her suffering." See the difference?

This particular display of God's justice IS the mother's suffering. There is no divorcing one from the other. No suffering, no "justice."

 

[Tsalagi]

I thoroughly rejoice in the justice of God, even while weeping over the unrepentant sinner.

Your attitude is different than God's in that regard.

They would die in sins because justification has always been by faith, not by works.
If you grasped the covenants of God you would do a much better job of interpreting scripture.

It's always back to the second person personal pronouns with you, a telltale pattern when people run short of scriptural support for their views.

 

[Tsalagi]

That is not what Gerstner said, nor what I have said.
Do we rejoice in the justice of God? If not, we declare God imperfect because we despise God's justice.

That's human reason talking, not the Word of God. You can't offer a single verse of Scripture for being so holy that we "rejoice in the justice of God" as we view it being expressed in eternal conscious torment of our loved ones. That's exactly what Gerstner is talking about, and he's full of beans. The Bible does not say or even suggest such a thing.

 

[Tsalagi]

I thoroughly rejoice in the justice of God, even while weeping over the unrepentant sinner.

Gerstner says we will not be weeping, we will be rejoicing WHILE LOOKING AT the unrepentant sinner.

Small wonder that the Bible is misunderstood when the plain meaning of plain words gets twisted into something that fits better into a rationalistic theological grid.