John Gerstner's Unbiblical Nonsense!

[AustinC]

" And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. " ( Revelation 14:9-11 )

As it stands, I'm not sure what you see, but if His saints are with Him and in His presence,
then according to this, they will indeed see people in torment the Lake of Fire.

But I see no reason to think that we, as His saints, will rejoice at their terrible punishment.
Rather, I believe that we will rejoice at our being saved from it.

Two points.
The text says "in the presence of his holy angels and the Lamb."

Second, Gerstner said he thought the saints would rejoice in the justness of God, not in the suffering of the godless.

This is where sbw seems to misunderstand Gerstner. Also, Gerstner was responding to a speculative question with a speculative answer. As humans we all tend to do this. One can argue that Gerstner should have simply acknowledged that the question itself is speculative, however, since I don't have the entire transcript, it seems he just answered extemporaneously.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Not inspired, but a really good theologian in some areas!

like on the eucharist?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Two points.
The text says "in the presence of his holy angels and the Lamb."

Second, Gerstner said he thought the saints would rejoice in the justness of God, not in the suffering of the godless.

This is where sbw seems to misunderstand Gerstner. Also, Gerstner was responding to a speculative question with a speculative answer. As humans we all tend to do this. One can argue that Gerstner should have simply acknowledged that the question itself is speculative, however, since I don't have the entire transcript, it seems he just answered extemporaneously.

you continue to misrepresent what Gerstner actually says, so here it is again

"you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in the display of the justice of God.”

This is twisted language for any person to use, to say that we Christians will rejoice that our loved are suffering in hell!

You should denounce this heresy instead of carrying on trying to defend it!

 

[AustinC]

but, if reformed theology says that God has already chosen those who will be saved, and left the rest to be damned, how it is their fault?

What does the Bible say? Does chosen from before the foundation of the world ring a bell?
Please stop acting as if it's not in the Bible.

Second, do you openly cut out Romans 9 which answers your complaint?

 

[AustinC]

you raised this point, and have been proven wrong again, and you don't like it!

LOL

 

[Yeshua1]

like on the eucharist?

Nope, but on salvation by grace alone thru faith alone !

 

[AustinC]

you continue to misrepresent what Gerstner actually says, so here it is again

"you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in the display of the justice of God.”

This is twisted language for any person to use, to say that we Christians will rejoice that our loved are suffering in hell!

You should denounce this heresy instead of carrying on trying to defend it!

Would there ever be a time when a saint in heaven would not rejoice in the display of the justice of God?

If so, please provide biblical text where the saints in heaven do not rejoice in the display of God's justice.

I await your scripture.

 

[Yeshua1]

you continue to misrepresent what Gerstner actually says, so here it is again

"you could look at your own mother in hell and rejoice in the display of the justice of God.”

This is twisted language for any person to use, to say that we Christians will rejoice that our loved are suffering in hell!

You should denounce this heresy instead of carrying on trying to defend it!

We would see all as God Himself does, so would that not mean we would understand that everything was done "rightly>"

 

[SavedByGrace]

What does the Bible say? Does chosen from before the foundation of the world ring a bell?
Please stop acting as if it's not in the Bible.

Second, do you openly cut out Romans 9 which answers your complaint?

IF anyone is chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world, then what is the point of preaching the Gospel to them? they are, according to reformed theology, saved in eternity past!

 

[SavedByGrace]

We would see all as God Himself does, so would that not mean we would understand that everything was done "rightly>"

another person simply avoiding what the OP actually states!

 

[Yeshua1]

IF anyone is chosen to salvation before the foundation of the world, then what is the point of preaching the Gospel to them? they are, according to reformed theology, saved in eternity past!

Because the Gospel is what God uses to "wake them up" with!

 

[SavedByGrace]

If so, please provide biblical text where the saints in heaven do not rejoice in the display of God's justice

the OP is NOT about God's Justice, so forget this strawman argument. Read the OP again

 

[SavedByGrace]

Because the Gospel is what God uses to "wake them up" with!

you people actually believe in this complete rubbish!

 

[SavedByGrace]

LOL

don't like been proven wrong again!

 

[Tsalagi]

Go read my comment to Tsalagi regarding Gerstner's answer.
Will the saints consider God unjust when they enter God's presence or will they rejoice in God's justice?

Not everything that God does is an occasion for rejoicing, according to Scripture. Using your logic we should rejoice that the Lord Jesus has triumphed over the dark principalities and powers of this world, and we are the beneficiaries of that victory. But that's not what the Bible says: Luke 10:19-20, "Behold, I have given you authority to tread on snakes and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy. Nothing will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Rejoicing in another's judgment is manifestly unscriptural. God does not rejoice in it, as already noted in Ezekiel (18:23, 18:32, 33:11). We should not either:

Job 31:29: "Have I rejoiced over my enemy's distress, or become excited when trouble came his way?"

Proverbs 24:19: "Do not gloat when your enemy falls, and do not let your heart rejoice when he stumbles, or the LORD will see and disapprove, and turn His wrath away from him."

"Rejoice" is the word Gerstner used, and he is manifestly wrong.

 

[Yeshua1]

you people actually believe in this complete rubbish!

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not "rubbish"

 

[Tsalagi]

you people actually believe in this complete rubbish!

There is no profit in being dragged down to the level of personal insults and getting beaten by those with more experience. IMO.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not "rubbish"

Indeed, to the Jew first and then the Gentile! Do you know what this means? Since the entire world is either Jew or Gentile, this means that the Gospel of Salvation from sins, is for the entire human race. No other way to take this. The reformed version is rubbish, not the Bibles!

 

[SavedByGrace]

There is no profit in being dragged down to the level of personal insults and getting beaten by those with more experience. IMO.

like who?

 

[Yeshua1]

Indeed, to the Jew first and then the Gentile! Do you know what this means? Since the entire world is either Jew or Gentile, this means that the Gospel of Salvation from sins, is for the entire human race. No other way to take this. The reformed version is rubbish, not the Bibles!

God did not intend to have all lost sinners saved by the Cross!