John MacArthur blasts Joel Osteen's teaching..

[Luke2427]

The Romish religion is dangerous because though it espouses many of the tenets of the Christian faith, it adds doctrines and practices contrary to holy Scripture. Not to mention, because it claims to be 'Christian', the world is duped by it's false profession out of it's ignorance to what Scripture teaches. The counterfeit is far more dangerous then the obvious opposite.

Romanism is the greatest weapon in his arsenal to counter true biblical Christian faith.

"Romish"- great word! Sounds like Ian Paisely!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Here is a credo I try to live by....maturity must be settin in:

"the best criticism of the bad is the practice of the better"

Amen

 

[webdog]

Why is "Mr. Grace To You" always attacking others? While I agree with Johnny Mac that Osteen's gospel is false (if you even want to call it a "gospel"...it's just a bunch of positive thinking mumbo jumbo) it would do him a world of good to just worry about preaching the gospel and tearing down false doctrines...not those who teach them.

 

[Pastor Larry]

...it would do him a world of good to just worry about preaching the gospel and tearing down false doctrines...not those who teach them.

Why isn't that the pattern of the NT? Paul, John, and others pointed out people by name, and commanded believers to do the same.

Do you think we have grown past the NT teaching on this?

 

[webdog]

Why isn't that the pattern of the NT? Paul, John, and others pointed out people by name, and commanded believers to do the same.

Do you think we have grown past the NT teaching on this?

He pointed out the people by name so they would know which false doctrine to avoid. That was the extent of Paul calling them out.

Shouldn't he be held to the same standard, then, with his false Lordship Salvation?

 

[Revmitchell]

He pointed out the people by name so they would know which false doctrine to avoid. That was the extent of Paul calling them out.

Shouldn't he be held to the same standard, then, with his false Lordship Salvation?

Sure if it was false

 

[gb93433]

Sure if it was false

How would you compare MacArthur's idea of lordship salvation to 1 Cor 3:11-15, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

 

[Pastor Larry]

He pointed out the people by name so they would know which false doctrine to avoid. That was the extent of Paul calling them out.

I suppose (but I actually think it was more than that), but that is what MacArthur did right?

Shouldn't he be held to the same standard, then, with his false Lordship Salvation?

Well, many have done exactly that, or at least tried to do it. So yes, people do hold him to the same standard.

Think about yourself here, Webdog. You have called many people out, and yet you complain when MacArthur does it. Isn't that a double standard on your part?

 

[Pastor Larry]

How would you compare MacArthur's idea of lordship salvation to 1 Cor 3:11-15, [/quote]Um, read the passage. That is talking about building the church, not about personal salvation.

 

[Berean]

I believe that Christ would preach the same Message if he were in the world today. Figuratively speaking I am reminded of what my maternal grand mother used to say, Son when you shoot into a pack of hounds only the ones that have been hit will yelp.

 

[Revmitchell]

How would you compare MacArthur's idea of lordship salvation to 1 Cor 3:11-15, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."

I would say you fail to understand both.

 

[gb93433]

I would say you fail to understand both.

Then enlighten me.

 

[Havensdad]

Guys and gals,

I do not understand how anyone can attack Macarthur for calling out Joel Osteen. He is a false prophet, teaching a false, damning Gospel.

I am sorry that some of you believe that the Holy Spirit of God is powerless to change those who have been saved; I am sorry some of you believe that someone can be saved by saying "I want your ticket to Heaven, Jesus, but not you."

Regardless of such, Joel is still a horrific heretic, leading millions of people astray, and needed to be called on it. Bravo, John Macarthur!

Now, lets keep the Lordship debate for it's appropriate thread, and keep THIS thread on point...

 

[gb93433]

I do not understand how anyone can attack Macarthur for calling out Joel Osteen. He is a false prophet, teaching a false, damning Gospel.

I would question how much good it does. We can spend our time chasing heretics in other parts of the country or we can spend time making disciples in our own back yard. Heretics do not change just because someone speaks out against them. A huge does of scripture keeps one from being enticed by cults and false teachers.

You do know where the Mormons get most of their converts?

By looking at all the church growth books one doesn't have to think very much to wonder where the men are who are studying and carrying out the commands of scripture especially when we have leaders of conventions and denominations who are living in fancy houses. Who needs a 3,000 square foot house or larger to live in?

 

[ashleysdad]

I would question how much good it does. We can spend our time chasing heretics in other parts of the country or we can spend time making disciples in our own back yard. Heretics do not change just because someone speaks out against them. A huge does of scripture keeps one from being enticed by cults and false teachers.

You do know where the Mormons get most of their converts?

By looking at all the church growth books one doesn't have to think very much to wonder where the men are who are studying and carrying out the commands of scripture especially when we have leaders of conventions and denominations who are living in fancy houses. Who needs a 3,000 square foot house or larger to live in?

I would say that it does a lot of good. First off we are commanded to earnestly contend for the faith. Secondly, by speaking out against heretics and false prophets we are engaging in making disciples because part of the discipleship process is to make sure that new converts are not enticed by the heresies of a false prophet like Osteen. Is Osteen going to repent and give up his false teaching, probably not. However we can do our best to make sure that new Christians are not led astray by his teaching by exposing it and denouncing it.

 

[gb93433]

I would say that it does a lot of good. First off we are commanded to earnestly contend for the faith. Secondly, by speaking out against heretics and false prophets we are engaging in making disciples because part of the discipleship process is to make sure that new converts are not enticed by the heresies of a false prophet like Osteen.

I talked with one man in Houston a few years ago about that issue. He does not know MacArthur.

Is Osteen going to repent and give up his false teaching, probably not. However we can do our best to make sure that new Christians are not led astray by his teaching by exposing it and denouncing it.

Quality personal discipleship easily takes care of that. When I pastored a church a few years ago and took a stance against some long time practices they had of inviting the Mormon bishop to teach it was the leaders in the church who came against me. One of them was on the church growth board at the state level too. However it was a number of the young Christians who supported me and stood strong.

Do you know what kind of people are starting the equivalent of several new Mormon churches each year? Do you know where they are coming from? Do you know why?

Do you have any idea why in a town of about 3.5 million and over 500 SBC churches that Osteen can continue?

A few weeks ago I finished a study that went for 12 weeks on the basic doctrines of the church I attend and it was very well attended (about 20% of the adults). Out of that came some new Christians. Yet today, I hear so many pastors say that people do not want to hear or study doctrine. What do they want? Ignorance and feeding them to the wolves.

Many who are attending Osteen's church are from other local churches in the local area? Why?

A few years ago I spoke with probably one of the top experts on Mormonism. She told me the reason why people are joining the Mormon church is because they do not know their Bible. She said that if people knew their Bible they would never join the Mormon church. She also told me that their converts are coming from the two largest religious groups in America. That is a sad fact. I think it is going to get worse because of all the pastors who are trying to find ways to get people in the door instead of seeking God, discipling themselves to study His word, and making disciples. Our country is at a very high risk at this point in time.

 

[ashleysdad]

I talked with one man in Houston a few years ago about that issue. He does not know MacArthur.

Quality personal discipleship easily takes care of that. When I pastored a church a few years ago and took a stance against some long time practices they had of inviting the Mormon bishop to teach it was the leaders in the church who came against me. One of them was on the church growth board at the state level too. However it was a number of the young Christians who supported me and stood strong.

Do you know what kind of people are starting the equivalent of several new Mormon churches each year? Do you know where they are coming from? Do you know why?

Do you have any idea why in a town of about 3.5 million and over 500 SBC churches that Osteen can continue?

A few weeks ago I finished a study that went for 12 weeks on the basic doctrines of the church I attend and it was very well attended (about 20% of the adults). Out of that came some new Christians. Yet today, I hear so many pastors say that people do not want to hear or study doctrine. What do they want? Ignorance and feeding them to the wolves.

Many who are attending Osteen's church are from other local churches in the local area? Why?

A few years ago I spoke with probably one of the top experts on Mormonism. She told me the reason why people are joining the Mormon church is because they do not know their Bible. She said that if people knew their Bible they would never join the Mormon church. She also told me that their converts are coming from the two largest religious groups in America. That is a sad fact. I think it is going to get worse because of all the pastors who are trying to find ways to get people in the door instead of seeking God, discipling themselves to study His word, and making disciples. Our country is at a very high risk at this point in time.

I agree we should be involved in one on one personal discipleship, however I do not see how that negates our responsibility to publicly denounce false prophets. Whether or not somebody knows MacArthur or not is beside the point. Osteen is still a false prophet and still needs to be publicly called out. Wasn't that how Jesus taught His disciples? Alot of one on one teaching but He still publicly rebuked the false teachers of His day.

 

[Havensdad]

I would question how much good it does. We can spend our time chasing heretics in other parts of the country or we can spend time making disciples in our own back yard. Heretics do not change just because someone speaks out against them. A huge does of scripture keeps one from being enticed by cults and false teachers.

You do know where the Mormons get most of their converts?

By looking at all the church growth books one doesn't have to think very much to wonder where the men are who are studying and carrying out the commands of scripture especially when we have leaders of conventions and denominations who are living in fancy houses. Who needs a 3,000 square foot house or larger to live in?

I really don't care if it does good, or not. God commands us to silence false teachers. If we do not, we are being disobedient. Macarthur is simply obeying the commands of scripture.

 

[webdog]

Sure if it was false

Works salvation, front loaded or back loaded is still works salvation...and false.

 

[gb93433]

I agree we should be involved in one on one personal discipleship, however I do not see how that negates our responsibility to publicly denounce false prophets. Whether or not somebody knows MacArthur or not is beside the point. Osteen is still a false prophet and still needs to be publicly called out. Wasn't that how Jesus taught His disciples? Alot of one on one teaching but He still publicly rebuked the false teachers of His day.

I agree but think of where Osteen is located. Where are the local pastors and people in the matter. Asleep? My experience has been poor in that when it comes time to really pastor and call sin what it is outside of the church building they have loads of excuses.

It sounds good to commend someone else doing the work but all those things need to start at home and encourage your pastor to preach the word and help him do the work of ministry. So many want entertainment and they find men to entertain them.

Home for Osteen is Houston. Where are the local pastors and people in Houston?