John MacArthur - Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church

[dad2]

Sinners are not Christians.

You are sinless?

The entire premise that they are is based in a misunderstanding of a statement of Paul.

Not really, Jesus reminded us to pray we get forgiven for our trespasses/sins. All the bible heros were sinners. Peter denied Jesus and the apostles fled. Etc.

A sinner comes to Christ, is washed in His blood, clothed in His Righteousness, and made holy and righteous before The Father.

Right, if God looked at our sins and works, we would not be saved. It was not works or sinlessness that saved us or keeps us saved.

The former sinner is then a saint.

Sinless saint?

Not by his works but by Christ blood making the sinner righteousness.

Righteousness is not sinlessness. Perhaps you either want to pretend you are perfect and sinless or call sinning something else?

From the Greek Greek, this is the definition of sin.

1. equivalent to 264
   1. to be without a share in
   2. to miss the mark
   3. to err, be mistaken
   4. to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong
   5. to wander from the law of God, violate God's law, sin
2. that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act
3. collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many

You never miss the mark, violate any law in thought of deed, do wrong, or make a mistake?

For a christian to positionally be a sinner would mean Christ blood could not make him righteous.

Too late, He already did that. NOT because we were sinless either. We still have trespasses that need forgiving after we are saved, as Jesus pointed out in 'the Lord's Prayer'.

Trespasses means this from the Greek

1. to fall beside or near something
2. a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness
   1. a sin, misdeed

Only the saint clothed in the spotless garment will enter Heaven.

Verse? Seems to me that we are being made perfect and that work is finished in heaven. That is where I notice folks being pure and white. To claim you are lily white now in all ways and sinless is less than a hypocritical joke.

You a sinner or a saint?

A saved sinning saint.
That is why I have some reluctance to cast the first stone at Christians who get caught with a hand in a cookie jar.

 

[rockytopva]

Aug 25: Standoff Continues between Grace Community Church and Los Angeles County

A California judge has declined again to grant Los Angeles County a temporary restraining order against John MacArthur and his Grace Community Church for defying a county public health order related to the coronavirus pandemic. However, despite the court also reaffirming the county’s right to issue and enforce public health restrictions, the county to date has not issued fines against the church,

Standoff continues between John MacArthur and Los Angeles County – Baptist News Global

 

[rockytopva]

LA County Evicting MacArthur, Grace Community Church from Parking Lot They’ve Leased for 45 Years...

LA County Evicting MacArthur, Grace Community Church from Parking Lot They’ve Leased for 45 Years – Ministry Watch

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Maybe churches can give back to Cesar all the tax breaks they have gotten and feel free to start obeying God?

I believe churches should pay their own property taxes. Why should I pay for the RCC, JW, Mormon, Islamic, etc. properties? If they paid their fare share, household and business property taxes would (should) go down allowing church members to cover the taxes for their "campus".

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Aug 25: Standoff Continues between Grace Community Church and Los Angeles County

A California judge has declined again to grant Los Angeles County a temporary restraining order against John MacArthur and his Grace Community Church for defying a county public health order related to the coronavirus pandemic. However, despite the court also reaffirming the county’s right to issue and enforce public health restrictions, the county to date has not issued fines against the church,

Standoff continues between John MacArthur and Los Angeles County – Baptist News Global

How many churches do you know that are not required to provide parking in the building plans? Providing parking is a requirement of every building/expansion program I am aware of.

 

[Calminian]

J.M. should say "its not church. Its a protest and demonstration "

says that often. "Welcome to our peaceful protest."

 

[JonShaff]

I believe churches should pay their own property taxes. Why should I pay for the RCC, JW, Mormon, Islamic, etc. properties? If they paid their fare share, household and business property taxes would (should) go down allowing church members to cover the taxes for their "campus".

If churches pay their own property taxes that means the state owns all the church's property.

 

[Reynolds]

says that often. "Welcome to our peaceful protest."

He started saying that after my post. I listen to him every Sunday. I never heard him say it prior to the date I posted. (I know he did not read my post, not implying that)

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

He started saying that after my post. I listen to him every Sunday. I never heard him say it prior to the date I posted. (I know he did not read my post, not implying that)

Perhaps when the urban dictionaries discuss the origins of this phrase, they should credit it to someone at MacArthur’s church reading a post on the BB by “Stonewall Jackson” Reynolds and it being shaped from that, and based on Scripture of course.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

If churches pay their own property taxes that means the state owns all the church's property.

To my knowledge, all commercial and private property owners pay property taxes without the state claiming ownership.
What am I missing???

 

[JonShaff]

To my knowledge, all commercial and private property owners pay property taxes without the state claiming ownership.
What am I missing???

What happens when they don't pay the property tax?

 

[Salty]

I believe churches should pay their own property taxes. Why should I pay for the RCC, JW, Mormon, Islamic, etc. properties? If they paid their fare share, household and business property taxes would (should) go down allowing church members to cover the taxes for their "campus".

THEN Should they pay income tax- sales tax - ect, ect...

 

[Reformed1689]

I believe churches should pay their own property taxes. Why should I pay for the RCC, JW, Mormon, Islamic, etc. properties? If they paid their fare share, household and business property taxes would (should) go down allowing church members to cover the taxes for their "campus".

No, just no.

 

[SGO]

Let's pray that our God and King would help them. It could be us in the future any way.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

THEN Should they pay income tax- sales tax - ect, ect...

Yes. Whatever they are liable for. Same with all so-called non-profits. No such thing as a non-profit in practical terms. How can a non-profit pay their top execs. such exorbitant salaries and bonuses as many do.


A few examples from the secular world:
10 Insanely Overpaid Public College Presidents
Most public college presidents also enjoy generous perks. One president who was recently hired, Robert Caret at the University of Massachusetts, will be able to take a yearlong sabbatical when he steps down at full salary (currently $425,000 a year with raises of $25,000 for the next two years) if he stays at least five years. He also receives a $60,000 housing allowance, a $63,750 retirement annuity, an annual performance bonus of up to 15 percent of his salary, and $250,000 in deferred compensation set aside over the next three years. If he’s fired, he’ll still receive the remainder of his salary for the year, the right to become a full-time faculty member (albeit at a reduced salary), and still take any sabbaticals he’s earned.

10 Insanely Overpaid Public College Presidents
Mary Sue Coleman, $845,105
University of Michigan
Base salary:$570,105
Bonus pay:$100,000 (plus $175,000 set aside for deferred compensation)
Perks:Car, house, $24,500 pension contribution
Tenure:2002–Present
In-state tuition and fees:$12,590

I have not been able to find the base salaries and benefit packages of preachers. Their net-worth is available.

 

[Chickenlittle]

John MacArthur has repeatedly refused to obey the authority of Caesar. Jesus says," Render into Caesar that which is Caesars". It is absolutely wrong for government to leave bars, hair salons, beaches, and other dangerous establishments open while ordering impossible rules for churches.
But, there are photos of Pastor John's church packed side by side like sardines without masks. He has blatantly refused to admit there is a pandemic. The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, but it also guarantees the right to life. 235,000 people have died from Covid. I know 8 people who have died from the virus, including two family members. Two of those died from the virus, caught at a local church, that refused to obey CDC rules.Their families are still in shock. All 8 were over 70 and had health issues. Sadly, the virus spread outside the church, causing havoc in the small community.
John, like other church leaders, is quick to defend the life of the innocent unborn, but seems unconcerned about the lives of the elderly. John would never ask his church members to pick up a deadly rattlesnake, like the snake handler religious cults, but, seems oblivious to protecting his elderly flock from a deadly virus.
I know that CDC rules are not law. They are guidelines. They are backed by government authority. One pastor in a local church near me told me on the phone that he would let his members decide which CDC rules they would obey. In other words, the shining light on the hill would selectively uphold the rule of authority they agreed with. This is called anarchy. Jesus never taught this!
In Vietnam, I watched a nation of people die on the streets for the simple right to vote and serve on a jury. I know the awesome responsibility of upholding every God given right under the Constitution, especially freedom of religion. But, I am sick of mega churches, with their 200,000 dollar preachers, tinted windows, and crystal chandeliers.
Thank Jesus I am saved at the cross, and not by a pastor with a net worth of 14 million dollars. Just follow the money. Are these mega churches concerned about the gospel, or the lost revenue from temporary church closure?

Grace Community Church, led by Pastor John MacArthur, announced this week that it will not submit to California Governor Gavin Newsom’s order to halt indoor church services, declaring that “Christ, Not Caesar, is head of the church.”

John MacArthur's CA Church Announces It Will Not Submit To Gov. Newsom's Ban On Indoor Church Services ⋆ Activist Mommy

 

[dad2]

John MacArthur has repeatedly refused to obey the authority of Caesar. Jesus says," Render into Caesar that which is Caesars". It is absolutely wrong for government to leave bars, hair salons, beaches, and other dangerous establishments open while ordering impossible rules for churches.
But, there are photos of Pastor John's church packed side by side like sardines without masks. He has blatantly refused to admit there is a pandemic. The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, but it also guarantees the right to life. 235,000 people have died from Covid. I know 8 people who have died from the virus, including two family members. Two of those died from the virus, caught at a local church, that refused to obey CDC rules.Their families are still in shock. All 8 were over 70 and had health issues. Sadly, the virus spread outside the church, causing havoc in the small community.
John, like other church leaders, is quick to defend the life of the innocent unborn, but seems unconcerned about the lives of the elderly. John would never ask his church members to pick up a deadly rattlesnake, like the snake handler religious cults, but, seems oblivious to protecting his elderly flock from a deadly virus.
I know that CDC rules are not law. They are guidelines. They are backed by government authority. One pastor in a local church near me told me on the phone that he would let his members decide which CDC rules they would obey. In other words, the shining light on the hill would selectively uphold the rule of authority they agreed with. This is called anarchy. Jesus never taught this!
In Vietnam, I watched a nation of people die on the streets for the simple right to vote and serve on a jury. I know the awesome responsibility of upholding every God given right under the Constitution, especially freedom of religion. But, I am sick of mega churches, with their 200,000 dollar preachers, tinted windows, and crystal chandeliers.
Thank Jesus I am saved at the cross, and not by a pastor with a net worth of 14 million dollars. Just follow the money. Are these mega churches concerned about the gospel, or the lost revenue from temporary church closure?

Give unto Caesar what is his. Do not obey him over God. The right to life includes in the next word I think, liberty! One cannot claim that we might sneeze and kill someone so that we can't work, fellowship, have free speech,and etc. There are scores of diseases out there and there will be new ones also in the future. You cannot grab one and use it to impose slavery.

 

[Reformed1689]

John MacArthur has repeatedly refused to obey the authority of Caesar. Jesus says," Render into Caesar that which is Caesars".

John is following actual laws. Not illegal mandates.

But, there are photos of Pastor John's church packed side by side like sardines without masks.

Not against the law.

He has blatantly refused to admit there is a pandemic.

Proof?

The Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, but it also guarantees the right to life.

What is your point?

235,000 people have died from Covid.

That is debatable.

I know 8 people who have died from the virus, including two family members.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Two of those died from the virus, caught at a local church, that refused to obey CDC rules.

How can you prove that?

All 8 were over 70 and had health issues.

Which means Covid isn't the cause.

Sadly, the virus spread outside the church, causing havoc in the small community.

Again, you will have a hard time proving it was the church.

John, like other church leaders, is quick to defend the life of the innocent unborn, but seems unconcerned about the lives of the elderly.

Not true. Those at risk have the option of staying home.

John would never ask his church members to pick up a deadly rattlesnake, like the snake handler religious cults, but, seems oblivious to protecting his elderly flock from a deadly virus.

Nobody is forced to attend.

I know that CDC rules are not law. They are guidelines

This is key.

They are backed by government authority.

What legislature has actually made laws regarding the guidelines?

One pastor in a local church near me told me on the phone that he would let his members decide which CDC rules they would obey.

Guidelines, not rules. It's called freedom.

In other words, the shining light on the hill would selectively uphold the rule of authority they agreed with. This is called anarchy. Jesus never taught this!

Except CDC guidelines are not the law of the land.

Thank Jesus I am saved at the cross, and not by a pastor with a net worth of 14 million dollars. Just follow the money. Are these mega churches concerned about the gospel, or the lost revenue from temporary church closure?

Baseless accusation against MacArthur.

 

[Calminian]

...John, like other church leaders, is quick to defend the life of the innocent unborn, ...

What other church leaders? The abortion issue is largely ignored today. Many pastors go out of their way to make abortion voters comfortable in their Church. They'll acknowledge abortion is wrong, but then equate it with other issues like gun control. I've heard precious few talk about the importance of voting for life. God bless MacArthur for putting it in a correct context.

Regarding the elderly, you've made a poor comparison. The unborn have no choice about where they go. They don't choose to go to abortion clinics and get slaughtered. The elderly, OTOH, do have a choice. If they feel they are at risk, they can stay home, and many do. It's called personal responsibility.

Your moral compass is way off on this one.

On a side note, your issue about obeying Caesar is also way off, in several different ways. You don't obey Caesar when he tells you to stop your assembling. I think you'll find MacArthur and others are very obedient, so long as you don't tell them how to practice their faith.

Also, you're confused about who Caesar is. Governors are not Caesar. Presidents aren't either. They are merely servants of Caesar. Caesar in America, is We The People and the Constitution. Only the courts can speak for them, and the jury is still out.

 

[Salty]

David - Excellent post.!

Not one person who attends services - was forced to attend.
Just because the church does not require masks - does not prevent someone from wearing one.