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Judge Blocks New York From Turning Over Trump Tax Returns To Congress

Who cares? The fact is this NYS law was passed to concern only one person, and that is an unconstitutional action.

It doesn't concern one person, it concerns all persons. When a President breaks with tradition, it becomes necessary to make that tradition a law if that tradition was important.

George Washington established the tradition of only serving two terms in office. During World War II, FDR won a third and fourth term. It was perfectly legal, but against tradition. As a result, a limit of two terms became the law. Likewise, candidates for president have released their tax returns as a matter of tradition. As we have a president that is doing everything he can to hide them, it makes sense that laws will require it in the future.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
No, he lied, and he maintained that lie

It's not a new rule. It is possible to release his tax records. He is doing everything in his power to prevent people from seeing them.
The twisted attacks against Trump never cease. Calling it lying is to favor subversive, possibly treasonous, hypocrisy.

It is abundantly clear to anyone who cares for truth that the lawyers advise not to release information while under audit, a typical stance of every side in legal cases.

But more to the point, those seeking the information are sworn political enemies—extreme liars and deceivers all. He would be a fool not to fight them tooth and nail.

Even in secular matters, don’t give to dogs what is precious, or cast pearls before swine, and never let the left hand, aka goats—or as they prefer, jackasses—know what the right is doing.
 

InTheLight

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
We know Trump lied when he said he couldn't release his tax returns during his campaign. There is no law that prevents the release of your taxes during an audit.

He never said he "couldn't release his taxes".

He said he wouldn't release them.

Big difference.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There is not any money in real estate in Indianapolis. If Trump made money, it was by hard work and 16 hour days and 7 day weeks. It takes extreme attention to detail.
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Regarding the claim that Candidate Trump promised to release his tax information, we have this response:

Trump did not lie. He spoke without thinking.

Below are just a few examples of the President allegedly "speaking without thinking." To maintain that he simply misspoke is to assert that he has some sort of uncontrolled pathology that makes him say things he doesn't intend. While that would explain a great many things, it also means that he should be removed from office by the 25th Amendment because of his incapacity.

February 25, 2015 - Interview - Hugh Hewitt Interviews Donald Trump on His Syndicated Radio Show
Hugh Hewitt:
Yeah, you're not shy. Let me ask you this. On the day you declare, how many years of tax returns will you release?

Candidate Trump:
Well, I'd certainly go over tax returns, and I will tell you nobody knows the tax return business or world better than me. And you have to understand, I'm a businessman, and I work for myself. And I have a phenomenal net worth, and a lot of cash and very little debt, and you'd see that. And actually, I did that, you know, I'm the only candidate in history that actually submitted his financials the last time, and I didn't run.

I actually submitted my financials, because to be honest with you, I'm very proud of my financials.

Hugh Hewitt:
But I mean, would you actually...

Candidate Trump:
And my financials now are much better.

Hugh Hewitt:
Would you release tax returns, though?

Candidate Trump:
I would release tax returns, and I would also explain to people that as a person that's looking to make money, you know, I'm in the business of making money until I do this. And if I won, I would make money for our country. I would make so much money for our country that they wouldn't have to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, that we would be able to have a strong, we would take the jobs back from China. We'd take the jobs back from Mexico.

I don't know if you know, the new great abuser in this country is Mexico. They're taking our jobs, they're killing us on the border. People are just fleeing across Mexico. If you want to become a citizen of Mexico, do you know it's probably the hardest or one of the hardest nations in the world to become a citizen of? And yet they let people flow across their borders, and they push them through our border, because we don't know what we're doing.

Hugh Hewitt:
I got it, but I want to stay focused on the tax returns. How many years back?

Candidate Trump:
So the answer is yeah, I would do it.

Hugh Hewitt:
I got it, but I want to stay focused on the tax returns. How many years back?

Candidate Trump:
So the answer is yeah, I would do it.

Hugh Hewitt:
Three years? Five years?

Candidate Trump:
I mean, I would do something, but I will tell you up front, as a private person, Hugh, I would be, and you know, I'm very proud of this. I want to pay as little taxes as I can as a private person.

Hugh Hewitt:
Of course. Of course. That's the American way, legally.

Candidate Trump:
You know, why should I be, why should I say I'm looking to pay a fortune in tax? It's part of the complexity of the tax system.

Hugh Hewitt:
How many years back would you go on the day you announce? Three? Five?

Candidate Trump:
Oh, I don't know. I mean, I actually have not even thought of that, but I would certainly show tax returns if it was necessary.

Hugh Hewitt:
At least a couple of years?

Candidate Trump:
Well, what have they been doing? They've been really doing one year, other than people that never made anything. But I would certainly, I'm very proud of what I've done. I do pay tax. But I'm very proud of what I did.

Hugh Hewitt:
At least a couple of years?

Candidate Trump:
Well, what have they been doing? They've been really doing one year, other than people that never made anything. But I would certainly, I'm very proud of what I've done. I do pay tax. But I'm very proud of what I did.

I will say this. You will see piles and piles and piles of paper stacked many feet into the air, because the system is so complex that it's disgraceful. And the tax system does have to be changed.

Hugh Hewitt:
That's what I, you know, I think two or three years would be great. I think anyone, if you did two or three years...

Candidate Trump:
But we'll take a good, strong look at that, Hugh. I mean, it's obviously not something I thought of, but you know, I've given any real thought to, but I have no objection to certainly showing tax returns.

February 25, 2016 - Debate: 10th Republican Presidential Candidate Debate in Houston, Texas
Let me just tell you, let me just -- which happens to be true. Check out the ratings. Look, let me just tell you something. Let me just tell you something. I want to release my tax returns but I can't release it while I'm under an audit. We're under a routine audit. I've had it for years, I get audited. And obviously if I'm being audited, I'm not going to release a return. As soon as the audit is done, I love it.

February 27, 2016 - Twitter @11:20am EST
Tax experts throughout the media agree that no sane person would give their tax returns during an audit. After the audit, no problem!

March 3, 2016 - Speech: Donald Trump in Portland, Maine
"...I think it's very unfair that they ordered me every year. But I've that they ordered me every year. But I've - that they ordered me every year, but I've been ordered every year for many years, been ordered every year for many years, been ordered every year for many years now when the audits finished, I'll now - when the audits finished, I'll now - when the audits finished, I'll release my tax returns, I have nothing but I don't want to do it and nobody in, but I don't want to do it and nobody in, but I don't want to do it. And nobody in this room would say you're being ordered. This room would say you're being ordered. This room would say you're being ordered and here's the tax return, you get order and here's the tax return, you get order and here's the tax return..."

May 11, 2016 - Twitter (likely Trump and not staff) @5:51pm EDT
In interview I told @AP that my taxes are under routine audit and I would release my tax returns when audit is complete, not after election!

May 13, 2016 - Interview: Donald Trump with O'Harrow, Boburg, Harwell - The Washington Post
"...the audit is done -- it's routine audit. But when the audit is done, I'll release my tax returns. Okay?..."

September 16, 2016 - 1st Presidential Debate
"...Well, I told you, I will release them as soon as the audit. Look, I’ve been under audit almost for 15 years. I know a lot of wealthy people that have never been audited. I said, do you get audited? I get audited almost every year. And in a way, I should be complaining. I’m not even complaining. I don’t mind it. It’s almost become a way of life. I get audited by the IRS. But other people don’t. I will say this. We have a situation in this country that has to be taken care of. I will release my tax returns — against my lawyer’s wishes — when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted. As soon as she releases them, I will release. I will release my tax returns. And that’s against — my lawyers, they say, “Don’t do it.” I will tell you this. No — in fact, watching shows, they’re reading the papers. Almost every lawyer says, you don’t release your returns until the audit’s complete. When the audit’s complete, I’ll do it. But I would go against them if she releases her e-mails...."
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Regarding the claim that Candidate Trump promised to release his tax information, we have this response:



Below are just a few examples of the President allegedly "speaking without thinking." To maintain that he simply misspoke is to assert that he has some sort of uncontrolled pathology that makes him say things he doesn't intend. While that would explain a great many things, it also means that he should be removed from office by the 25th Amendment because of his incapacity.

February 25, 2015 - Interview - Hugh Hewitt Interviews Donald Trump on His Syndicated Radio Show
Hugh Hewitt:
Yeah, you're not shy. Let me ask you this. On the day you declare, how many years of tax returns will you release?

Candidate Trump:
Well, I'd certainly go over tax returns, and I will tell you nobody knows the tax return business or world better than me. And you have to understand, I'm a businessman, and I work for myself. And I have a phenomenal net worth, and a lot of cash and very little debt, and you'd see that. And actually, I did that, you know, I'm the only candidate in history that actually submitted his financials the last time, and I didn't run.

I actually submitted my financials, because to be honest with you, I'm very proud of my financials.

Hugh Hewitt:
But I mean, would you actually...

Candidate Trump:
And my financials now are much better.

Hugh Hewitt:
Would you release tax returns, though?

Candidate Trump:
I would release tax returns, and I would also explain to people that as a person that's looking to make money, you know, I'm in the business of making money until I do this. And if I won, I would make money for our country. I would make so much money for our country that they wouldn't have to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, that we would be able to have a strong, we would take the jobs back from China. We'd take the jobs back from Mexico.

I don't know if you know, the new great abuser in this country is Mexico. They're taking our jobs, they're killing us on the border. People are just fleeing across Mexico. If you want to become a citizen of Mexico, do you know it's probably the hardest or one of the hardest nations in the world to become a citizen of? And yet they let people flow across their borders, and they push them through our border, because we don't know what we're doing.

Hugh Hewitt:
I got it, but I want to stay focused on the tax returns. How many years back?

Candidate Trump:
So the answer is yeah, I would do it.

Hugh Hewitt:
I got it, but I want to stay focused on the tax returns. How many years back?

Candidate Trump:
So the answer is yeah, I would do it.

Hugh Hewitt:
Three years? Five years?

Candidate Trump:
I mean, I would do something, but I will tell you up front, as a private person, Hugh, I would be, and you know, I'm very proud of this. I want to pay as little taxes as I can as a private person.

Hugh Hewitt:
Of course. Of course. That's the American way, legally.

Candidate Trump:
You know, why should I be, why should I say I'm looking to pay a fortune in tax? It's part of the complexity of the tax system.

Hugh Hewitt:
How many years back would you go on the day you announce? Three? Five?

Candidate Trump:
Oh, I don't know. I mean, I actually have not even thought of that, but I would certainly show tax returns if it was necessary.

Hugh Hewitt:
At least a couple of years?

Candidate Trump:
Well, what have they been doing? They've been really doing one year, other than people that never made anything. But I would certainly, I'm very proud of what I've done. I do pay tax. But I'm very proud of what I did.

Hugh Hewitt:
At least a couple of years?

Candidate Trump:
Well, what have they been doing? They've been really doing one year, other than people that never made anything. But I would certainly, I'm very proud of what I've done. I do pay tax. But I'm very proud of what I did.

I will say this. You will see piles and piles and piles of paper stacked many feet into the air, because the system is so complex that it's disgraceful. And the tax system does have to be changed.

Hugh Hewitt:
That's what I, you know, I think two or three years would be great. I think anyone, if you did two or three years...

Candidate Trump:
But we'll take a good, strong look at that, Hugh. I mean, it's obviously not something I thought of, but you know, I've given any real thought to, but I have no objection to certainly showing tax returns.

February 25, 2016 - Debate: 10th Republican Presidential Candidate Debate in Houston, Texas
Let me just tell you, let me just -- which happens to be true. Check out the ratings. Look, let me just tell you something. Let me just tell you something. I want to release my tax returns but I can't release it while I'm under an audit. We're under a routine audit. I've had it for years, I get audited. And obviously if I'm being audited, I'm not going to release a return. As soon as the audit is done, I love it.

February 27, 2016 - Twitter @11:20am EST
Tax experts throughout the media agree that no sane person would give their tax returns during an audit. After the audit, no problem!

March 3, 2016 - Speech: Donald Trump in Portland, Maine
"...I think it's very unfair that they ordered me every year. But I've that they ordered me every year. But I've - that they ordered me every year, but I've been ordered every year for many years, been ordered every year for many years, been ordered every year for many years now when the audits finished, I'll now - when the audits finished, I'll now - when the audits finished, I'll release my tax returns, I have nothing but I don't want to do it and nobody in, but I don't want to do it and nobody in, but I don't want to do it. And nobody in this room would say you're being ordered. This room would say you're being ordered. This room would say you're being ordered and here's the tax return, you get order and here's the tax return, you get order and here's the tax return..."

May 11, 2016 - Twitter (likely Trump and not staff) @5:51pm EDT
In interview I told @AP that my taxes are under routine audit and I would release my tax returns when audit is complete, not after election!

May 13, 2016 - Interview: Donald Trump with O'Harrow, Boburg, Harwell - The Washington Post
"...the audit is done -- it's routine audit. But when the audit is done, I'll release my tax returns. Okay?..."

September 16, 2016 - 1st Presidential Debate
"...Well, I told you, I will release them as soon as the audit. Look, I’ve been under audit almost for 15 years. I know a lot of wealthy people that have never been audited. I said, do you get audited? I get audited almost every year. And in a way, I should be complaining. I’m not even complaining. I don’t mind it. It’s almost become a way of life. I get audited by the IRS. But other people don’t. I will say this. We have a situation in this country that has to be taken care of. I will release my tax returns — against my lawyer’s wishes — when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted. As soon as she releases them, I will release. I will release my tax returns. And that’s against — my lawyers, they say, “Don’t do it.” I will tell you this. No — in fact, watching shows, they’re reading the papers. Almost every lawyer says, you don’t release your returns until the audit’s complete. When the audit’s complete, I’ll do it. But I would go against them if she releases her e-mails...."
Prior to the election, the deal was that when Hillary released all of her e-mails, then Trump, when no longer being audited would release his tax returns.

For those with a good grip on reality—we realize Dems and all Trump bashers are a big exception here—the election is now over, so his tax returns are a moot point.

To bring all of that up in any other context is disingenuous. However...

The same cannot be said of the missing e-mails of Crooked Hillary "What does it matter now?" Clinton.
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Prior to the election, the deal was that when Hillary released all of her e-mails, then Trump, when no longer being audited would release his tax returns.
He shifted his position very late in the campaign to deflect from his earlier promises.

For those with a good grip on reality—we realize Dems and all Trump bashers are a big exception here—the election is now over, so his tax returns are a moot point.
Not at all. They are a much bigger issue now that we know that Candidate Trump was quite dishonest about 'not having anything to do with Russia,' and the information that has come out about his indebtedness and dishonest financial practices. His obsession with keeping that information secret in spite of the law that gives Congress oversight makes many people think he has something to hide.

The same cannot be said of the missing e-mails of Crooked Hillary "What does it matter now?" Clinton.
Well I'm not defending Ms. Clinton, but if Trump supporters were informed and held the President and his family to the same standards, they should be livid about the way key members of the Trump Administration -- including the President -- use unsecured e-mails and telephones for official business. But that would require consistency.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I'm glad you can admit that the President lies. But I am surprised that when your position is disproven you immediately go to the cynical "everybody is doing it" defense.

Trump was not a professional politician and he made a political mistake. He probably is not that rich. Obama lied a lot about his university and refused to release his grades, which were probably weak. No one at Columbia ever saw him there. Clinton refused to release his medical records, perhaps because he had a lot of venereal disease.

You have no need to see his tax returns. You are just playing politics. Bless your heart.
 

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Trump was not a professional politician and he made a political mistake. He probably is not that rich. Obama lied a lot about his university and refused to release his grades, which were probably weak. No one at Columbia ever saw him there. Clinton refused to release his medical records, perhaps because he had a lot of venereal disease.

You have no need to see his tax returns. You are just playing politics. Bless your heart.

Boom! Then he drops the mic.
 

Baptist Believer

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Trump was not a professional politician and he made a political mistake.
But you had the temerity to try to repeatedly correct our friend "melchizedeck" when he was right all the time.

He probably is not that rich.
Maybe, maybe not. I'm really not interested in the volume of his wealth, I (and a lot of other people) are concerned about debt owed to state-run foreign banks.

Obama lied a lot about his university and refused to release his grades, which were probably weak.
Oh boy, you are going with the "everybody does it" defense again!

That's possible. Historically, lots of our President's grades have been weak.Presidential grades are normally not released. George W. Bush's grades were not officially released, but someone leaked them. And our current President had Michael Cohen send letters to Candidate Trump's alma maters to threaten them with legal action in case his grades and transcripts were released. So if you are going to be critical of Obama, you should be critical of President Trump as well so that you won't be a hypocrite.

No one at Columbia ever saw him there.
That's a long refuted lie. Factcheck Politifact Snopes Even if it were true that "no one" saw him there, the same thing could have been said about my first two years of state university. I lived off campus and had most of my classes in the Computer Science/Liberal Arts building on the edge of campus. I did not socialize with the university crowd and I made no friends there. All of my social life and friends were outside of the college community, mostly people connected with my church.

Clinton refused to release his medical records, perhaps because he had a lot of venereal disease.
Possibly.

You have no need to see his tax returns.
Personally, I don't, unless the Congressional committee finds something there that leads to legal action or impeachment hearings. That has never been what the lawsuits are about. It is not about releasing that information to the public.

You are just playing politics. Bless your heart.
It's called being a patriot and loving this nation that was "great" long before the President ever starting criticizing it for political reasons.
 

church mouse guy

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
But you had the temerity to try to repeatedly correct our friend "melchizedeck" when he was right all the time.


Maybe, maybe not. I'm really not interested in the volume of his wealth, I (and a lot of other people) are concerned about debt owed to state-run foreign banks.


Oh boy, you are going with the "everybody does it" defense again!

That's possible. Historically, lots of our President's grades have been weak.Presidential grades are normally not released. George W. Bush's grades were not officially released, but someone leaked them. And our current President had Michael Cohen send letters to Candidate Trump's alma maters to threaten them with legal action in case his grades and transcripts were released. So if you are going to be critical of Obama, you should be critical of President Trump as well so that you won't be a hypocrite.


That's a long refuted lie. Factcheck Politifact Snopes Even if it were true that "no one" saw him there, the same thing could have been said about my first two years of state university. I lived off campus and had most of my classes in the Computer Science/Liberal Arts building on the edge of campus. I did not socialize with the university crowd and I made no friends there. All of my social life and friends were outside of the college community, mostly people connected with my church.


Possibly.


Personally, I don't, unless the Congressional committee finds something there that leads to legal action or impeachment hearings. That has never been what the lawsuits are about. It is not about releasing that information to the public.


It's called being a patriot and loving this nation that was "great" long before the President ever starting criticizing it for political reasons.

Why don't the House Democrats just look into whatever it is that they are so worried about since it does not deal with his income?

So you think that Jesus was not King of the Jews and that Joseph and Mary were not descendants of King David, too? And you think that The Holy Family were illegal aliens in Egypt? That makes you a cultural Marxist.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Well I'm not defending Ms. Clinton, but if Trump supporters were informed and held the President and his family to the same standards, they should be livid about the way key members of the Trump Administration -- including the President -- use unsecured e-mails and telephones for official business. But that would require consistency.
I think you entirely misread Trump supporters. After eight years of the extremely racist and divisive Kenyan-Indonesian Muslim atheist doing his worst to run the country into the ground, and three years of the corrupt Deep State-MSM-Dem-RINO-NeverTrumper coalition trying their worst to undermine an American president who is trying to fix that mess as best he can—and doing a rather good job of improving America and the lives of Americans in general—there just is not much that would make them side with the godless progressive socialist swamp creatures who consider themselves above and beyond the law and essentially hate Trump for wanting to Make America Great Again.
 
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