just How Do the DoG Provide "sinner an excuse?"

[JesusFan]

When he appears before the Great White Throne?

 

[InTheLight]

Already answered many times, most recently here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1732305&postcount=90

 

[jbh28]

Sinful Man's excuse at Judgment Day (if Calvinism is to be believed): "There was nothing I could do about it. God didn't choose me for salvation, so I was predestined to Hell. Oh sure, the Bible say 'whosoever may come' and 'believe and you will be saved' but God didn't pick me."

And "whosoever may come" and "believe and you will be saved" are very true with Calvinism. there will be no one in hell that believed but were rejected because they were not "elect." There will be no one in hell that wanted to believe but couldn't.

 

[Winman]

And "whosoever may come" and "believe and you will be saved" are very true with Calvinism. there will be no one in hell that believed but were rejected because they were not "elect." There will be no one in hell that wanted to believe but couldn't.

Nothing but doubletalk. If Calvinism is true, the unelect will have the perfect excuse that they were not ABLE to be willing to believe through no fault of their own , they were born that way.

 

[JesusFan]

[

QUOTE=Winman;1732344]Nothing but doubletalk. If Calvinism is true, the unelect will have the perfect excuse that they were not ABLE to be willing to believe through no fault of their own , they were born that way.

[/QUOTE]

man is without excuse before Holy God...

We are sinners, whose willful choice is to keep sinning...

when the Light comes, prefers to stay in the darkness....

So NNE can say either "devil made me do it, or God made me NOT do it!"

 

[matt wade]

Nothing but doubletalk. If Calvinism is true, the unelect will have the perfect excuse that they were not ABLE to be willing to believe through no fault of their own , they were born that way.

You are exactly right Winman. Calvinists love their doubletalk. They've taken something that's so simple (the Gospel) that a child an easily understand it and twisted it into a false religion [using false religion implies the person does not have salvation which is against board rules] that you need a doctorate to defend it. [Deleted due to implication of Calvinist not being a Christian which is against board rules.]

 

[mandym]

You are exactly right Winman. Calvinists love their doubletalk. They've taken something that's so simple (the Gospel) that a child an easily understand it and twisted it into a false religion [False religion implies lack of salvation against board rules] that you need a doctorate to defend it. [Deleted see above]QUOTE]

At least the way it is displayed on this board.

 

[JesusFan]

You are exactly right Winman. Calvinists love their doubletalk. They've taken something that's so simple (the Gospel) that a child an easily understand it and twisted it into a false religion [false religions implies lack of salvation do not repeat] that you need a doctorate to defend it. [Deleted see above]QUOTE]


Its the sotierological system that best intergrates the totality though of the Scriptures regarding spiritual stae of man, and the means by which God has decreed to provide salvation to the sinner!

NOT infallible, or 'the Bible", but best model we currently have in this doctrine area!


The Gospel indeed is the power of God to bring the saving Grace to those whom God has elected to save in Christ, those who He enables hearsthe Gospel and believes in Christ!

 

[matt wade]

Its the sotierological system that best intergrates the totality though of the Scriptures regarding spiritual stae of man, and the means by which God has decreed to provide salvation to the sinner!

NOT infallible, or 'the Bible", but best model we currently have in this doctrine area!


The Gospel indeed is the power of God to bring the saving Grace to those whom God has elected to save in Christ, those who He enables hearsthe Gospel and believes in Christ!

and those he doesn't enable go straight to hell, don't pass go, and don't collect $200. They have no chance. What an unmerciful god the god of Calvinism is.

 

[InTheLight]

The Gospel indeed is the power of God to bring the saving Grace to those whom God has elected to save in Christ, those who He enables, hears the Gospel, and believes in Christ!

Thanks for succinctly describing Calvinism. It reads kind of clunky, though. You might want to rewrite it. To paraphrase:

For God so elected people, that he brought his saving grace, that whosoever he enables shall not perish but shall have everlasting life.

 

[JesusFan]

and those he doesn't enable go straight to hell, don't pass go, and don't collect $200. They have no chance. What an unmerciful god the god of Calvinism is.[/QUOTE

]

You mean the God that was willing to send his Only Son, God Himself, to die for the sake of those who were willing to have Him killed off?

Who decided to intervene and elect out of a race of reprobates who by their own will and choice have denied God His right place in their lives a group for His own pleasure?


the God who has breathed life physically into ALL people when they are conceived?

The God who swore not to see earth destroyed, nor Humanity?

That God? the One of calvinism?

 

[jbh28]

Thanks for succinctly describing Calvinism. It reads kind of clunky, though. You might want to rewrite it. To paraphrase:

For God so elected people, that he brought his saving grace, that whosoever he enables shall not perish but shall have everlasting life.

why? It's perfectly fine just as it is.

I already stated how this is true in my previous post. A couple people just mocked it with no real response, hence I didn't respond back.

 

[jbh28]

and those he doesn't enable go straight to hell, don't pass go, and don't collect $200. They have no chance. What an unmerciful god the god of Calvinism is.

And what mercy is received by those that reject God according to you? None. they go to hell. I guess God is unmerciful in your system as well. Or, we look at the fact that even if God only saved one person, that would be the greatest act of mercy ever.


Please stop referring to Calvinist as unbelievers by saying we worship a false god. You can disagree without that.

 

[matt wade]

You mean the God that was willing to send his Only Son, God Himself, to die for the sake of those who were willing to have Him killed off?

That's the God of the Bible.

Who decided to intervene and elect out of a race of reprobates who by their own will and choice have denied God His right place in their lives a group for His own pleasure?

That's an unmerciful god. One that elects a few and gives no chance to the rest.

the God who has breathed life physically into ALL people when they are conceived?

That's the God of the Bible.

The God who swore not to see earth destroyed, nor Humanity?

That's the God of the Bible.

 

[matt wade]

And what mercy is received by those that reject God according to you? None. they go to hell. I guess God is unmerciful in your system as well. Or, we look at the fact that even if God only saved one person, that would be the greatest act of mercy ever.

The mercy received by those that reject God is the chance to have accepted Him. The unmerciful god of calvinism gives many no chance at all.

Please stop referring to Calvinist as unbelievers by saying we worship a false god. You can disagree without that.

I will not.

 

[JesusFan]

The mercy received by those that reject God is the chance to have accepted Him. The unmerciful god of calvinism gives many no chance at all.




I will not.

By the same token I could choose to call the NoN cals here who tend to exalt Man equal to God by having it that God cannot save any unless the sinner permits/allows him to do such...

That could be called a false gospel and god...

Thankfully, I chose NOT to do such to my Non cal bethren here!

 

[Winman]

Calvinists say the unelect will be justly condemned for their sins. If Calvinism is true this is incredibly false. If a person is born a sinner and only has the ability to sin, it is wicked and unjust to punish them for doing the only thing they are able to do.

Is it just to execute a man born blind because he cannot see? Is it just to execute a person born without legs because he cannot walk?

But this is exactly what Calvinism teaches, that God punishes a man for eternity for his inability.

That is not justice, it is monstrous and cruel.

I am amazed anyone with half a brain can believe this false doctrine. That is why many Calvinists here have said you must reject man's sense of justice. Even Calvinists know there is something seriously wrong with their doctrine.

Honestly, I do not believe they preach Calvinism to convince others, I think they are trying to convince themselves!

 

[matt wade]

By the same token I could choose to call the NoN cals here who tend to exalt Man equal to God by having it that God cannot save any unless the sinner permits/allows him to do such...

That could be called a false gospel and god...

Thankfully, I chose NOT to do such to my Non cal bethren here!

Then I guess you don't believe what you believe as strongly as I do. I will continue to call out what I believe to be false.

 

[Greektim]

That's the God of the Bible.



That's an unmerciful god. One that elects a few and gives no chance to the rest.




That's the God of the Bible.



That's the God of the Bible.

What would you have God do??? Override their sinful inclination of perpetual unbelief? Oh wait... that's what he does!!!! So for God to be "mericful", he must be merciful to everyone??? You sure you have the correct understanding and definition of mercy???

 

[JesusFan]

Calvinists say the unelect will be justly condemned for their sins. If Calvinism is true this is incredibly false. If a person is born a sinner and only has the ability to sin, it is wicked and unjust to punish them for doing the only thing they are able to do.

Is it just to execute a man born blind because he cannot see? Is it just to execute a person born without legs because he cannot walk?

But this is exactly what Calvinism teaches, that God punishes a man for eternity for his inability.

That is not justice, it is monstrous and cruel.[/QUOTE


Bottom line, is that you place the ultimate 'fault" in your reasoning here back upon God Himself!

He has condemned ALL who are found by him to be "In Adam", and those would be all of those who are not saved by his Grace....

You woould say God is NOT just to find fault to condemn those who are sinners, who chose to disobey God and reject Christ...


All sinners willfully choose to reject jesus, as a result of their own natures and 'free choiice"...

You would place blame for all of this upon God, we would sya that man is where the fault squarely lies!

Bottom line in this...

man is a sinner who willfully chooses to reject God and to stay "in the dark" and they will be fairly judged by God for that!



]

I am amazed anyone with half a brain can believe this false doctrine. That is why many Calvinists here have said you must reject man's sense of justice. Even Calvinists know there is something seriously wrong with their doctrine

.

Gods ways and thoughts are FAR beyond ours, said the prophet isaiah...

We would have to agree with the the prophet on that, and chose to have God works His ways and plans, despite/even IF we do not fully understand them!

God forbid that we have to have God agree with us in just HOW to set up the salvation paln for man!

Honestly, I do not believe they preach Calvinism to convince others, I think they are trying to convince themselves!

Honestly, cannot believe in a theology that would basically deny effects of the fall, allows man to exercise free will same as Gods, and would see us as being basically 'good" in that we can still freely chose Christ or not!