KEEPING G THE LAW -is not an OPTION!

How many people have successfully kept all of these laws?

http://www.hisglory.us/documents/613_biblical_laws.htm

Many of them are virtually impossible to keep!

 

Hey! We agree on something.


Now how about answering that question?

We have to "start" and this appears to be a pretty simple point from John 14 and the Words of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

so go ahead - take a shot at answering --

did He mean "stop reading the Word of God"? Pre-cross? Post-Cross?

 

Here we see the scripture quoting Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ - surely a careful review of each of these is worth reading.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3871/4.html#000048

I am seeing perfect harmony between the PRE-Cross statements of Christ there and the POST cross statements of other NT writers.

No wonder - BOTH texts are written post cross!!

I say we listen to them!!

Why ignore the quotes? These points are made "sola scriptura"!

Wouldn't you agree that the quote from Romand 3 in that link AND the one from Romans 2 are in cmoplete agreement with the quotes from John 14 and Matthew listed in that link?

In Christ,

Bob

 

That just means if you break the law you are under the penalty of it.

Like, if you went out and got a ticket for murdering someone and were thrown in jail... then the judge were merciful enough to let you out, would you think you were free now to go out to murder again because you were "under grace"?


Rom:6:2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


Sin means transgression of the law.

Thats why it says the law is for liars, theives, etc... if you break it you are then under the penalty of it.

If you keep it then you dont have to worry about it.

Now watch this and read carefully, out loud if you have to.. then tell me honestly, is this telling you that you can now break the law of God?

Gal:5:23:

18: But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20: Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21: Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22: But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


who does it say will not inherit the kingdom of God?

It doesnt really have anything to do with going about trying to establish your own righteousness... it is more like allowing the grace of God to have its desired effect on you.

That is the very OBJECT of Christ's sacrifice for you...


1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


The Law IS the schoolmaster that points us to Christ, but after the sacrifice of Christ, He points us back to the Law... not to try and gain merit but out of love for Him we keep the law..

there wont be rebellion against God's government in heaven.

Claudia </font>[/QUOTE]I agree with you. And I must say that I was under the impression that this discussion was about soteriology and not obedience.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood your beliefs.

But I would disagree with you on just needing to keep the 10 Commandments. For instance, the book of James has 80 commandments directed toward Christians. And there are many more in the other epistles.

 

Even those are impossible to keep, hence the continuing need for Christ.
I want to keep them, it is my greatest desire to keep them, but I always fail.

Praise God, He gave me Christ.

80 Commandments? Where did you get that?

 

Chemnitz;
Which ones do you fail if you don't mind my asking?

 

Christ said "IF you Love Me KEEP My commandments" John 14.

Man made tradition says "nothing doin'".

Christ said "Love your neighbor as yourself" James 2, LEv 19:18...

Man made tradition says "Nothin doin' -- not possible".

Christ said "Love the Lord with all your heart" James 2, Deut 6:5

Man made tradition says "Nothin doin' - so forget about it".

Each time the Word is quoted and shows us our role as the people of God - man made tradition simply urges that we "pay no attention".

By Contrast Paul argues that we "ESTABLISH the Law of God" by our faith Rom 3:31 instead of seeking to violate it.

See --

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3871/4.html#000048

 

Pick one and I have broken it at sometime or another, but at least in some in a nonphysical sense.

 

First, this (luke 1:6) was before The Ultimate Sacrifice of Jesus Christ Superceded the Writings of the Law...

Second, this was talking about specific people and calling them Righteous in a way the people of the day could understand...

From your second paragraph, above, it is obvious you agree that it is impossible to literally keep the whole law...

So, it would also be impossible for the parents of John the Baptist to keep the whole law, blameless...

Unless they also religiously kept the Sacrifices as well...

But, we can no longer keep the whole law either...

And, we have but ONE Scarifice for Sin. Jesus Christ the Lamb of God...

The Jerusalem Council made it clear that there was no reason to strap the Gentile Church with a written code that niether they nor their fathers were able to bear (much less keep)...

The semantical issue is the "Have To"...

This makes it in addition to the Sacrifice of Christ... And, Biblically it is Christ Alone our Hope of Glory... Not, Christ and something else...

Now, if you want to talk about God's Love shed abroad in our Hearts and changing our "Want Tos" that's cool...

If you want to talk about being a fruit inspector that's probably OK, too...

But, remember a tree doesn't bear Good fruit on it's own...

It is the Good Life Giving Sap that rises from the Root that gives Good Fruit...

All the branches can be is a conduit of the Life Giving Force...

If you are grafted into the Root of Jesse, Jesus Christ the Righteous, then you will bear Good Fruit...

Lastly, it is not the Branches responsibility to bear Fruit of any kind...

(It's there inherent nature to do so when connected to a Life Giving Source...)

It is the Husbandman who grafts the branch into the root...

It is the Husbandman who properly fertilizes it...

If Jesus is really your Gardener you will bear good fruit...

Mike Sr.

 

Agreed.

We follow Him in obedience according to 1John 2. but that does not mean that we are not sinners in need of salvation and forgiveness.

Rom 3 "we WERE under condemnation of the Law" Rom 3 pre-conversion. After salvation we "by faith ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31. For as we see in Romans 2 it is the "DOERS" anot the "HEARERS only" that enter into "Gospel Justification" Rom 2:11-13.

Only as it pertains to "Condemnation of the Law". Once saved - as you point out in your first quote above - we "AGREE with the Holy Just and True" Law of God for it "IS SPIRITUAL" Rom 7.

"Here is the patience of the saints here are they that..."? (Rev 14)

In Christ,

Bob

 

1 - Is it your position that Christ came to "Abolish the Law" no matter what He said to the contrary?

2. - Is it your position that God's Word is NOT Law?

3. - Is it your position that Christ is not really GOD when it comes to the "Scriptures" of the NT saints as they read them day by day?

4. When Christ said "pre-cross" to KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS if you LOVE ME - was he calling for rebellion against scripture??

 

Notice how 1John 2 is quoted here as it agrees with Christ's words in John 14 "pre-cross" and Romans 2 (all quoted here)

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3871/4.html#000048

No dumping of scripture according to this.

No dumping of God's Commandments as this shows from Rev 14.

D.L. Moody was right in that regard as the post above shows.

 

I am ~~~~So~~~~~ Scared that I am living contrary to Scripture...

I think I'll go out and buy a Bible College to help me keep up with all the rules and regulations...

Oh ~~~~~ my I am so scared I am going to miss something and go to hell if I don't keep the whole law flawlessly....

Oh~~~~ My~~~~ Oh~~~~ My~~~~~ what shall I do!!!

Have any of you considered how ridiculous it is to preach OSAS and then turn around and preach the keeping of the Law!

I'd expect that of Old School Armenian Pentecostals! But, *never* Baptists... But, then you pro-Law folks aren't really baptists, are you?

If you're Always Saved what difference does it matter if you keep *any* rule, commandment or law?

But, irregadless I will stick with the Spirit for the Spirit Gives Life... The Letter Kills...

One must be careful when wielding the Word as a Weapon... As it was intended to be used as a surgical scapel not a killing weapon... Else why bother to separate bone from marrow?

Mike Sr.