Kenosis and Hypostasis

[Goinheix]

I have a question for Goinheix. Sorry if you have addressed this elsewhere, but I haven't seen it addressed yet. Let me grant for a moment that your position is true about Jesus. What are we to do with it? What does it mean in our Christian lives? What other Biblical doctrines does it affect? I'd like to hear from you how your belief affects other things in the Christian life, either in our daily walk or other doctrinal beliefs. What is the end result of your kenosis belief?

Have you ever hear of Paul being short and having problems in the eyes? I have hear it and read it many time and in many places. Is it irrelevant? probably not, because it has been repeated over and over. Is it impostant to question our salvation? Not at all, but still is good to know.

My teaching do not hany impact on our salvation, or any other doctrine. It is like discussing if a christian can divorce, if a divorced man converted to christian can married. Actually is not that deep, but yet it is important.

First, we have Jesus who lived like a christian. Then we can take him as an example of what must be and more impportant of what can be our life.

Jesus did live without any superpower. He did not have any advantage over us. He did not know anything that we can know. He was not capable of anything we can not.

Jesus lived in the power of the Holy Spirit. Actually is his own spirit.

Jesus was free form the condition of sin. In difference with all other men, he was not slave of the sin. He could choose not to sin, or choose to sin, he choose not to sin. In the same manner we, now, are free for the slavery of sin.

Today, we, as christians have exactly the same conditions of Jesus to live. There is not excuse because Jesus didnt have any advantage over us.
Jesus lived by faith.
Jesus lived on pry.
Jesus lived in obedience.
Jesus lived with no supernatutal power or capacity.
Jesus lived in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus didnt know the future or anything else.
Jesus - in plain talking - lived as a regular christian.

one more.
we can undeerstand if Jesus not having any divine atributes continues to be God - fully God - then we understand that God is God because He is; not for what He has. Not for what atributes He has. The atributes dont make a God. God makes the atributes. God is above the atributes and dont depend on them.

probably there is more consecuences or benefits to know how Jesus is.

 

[DHK]

Is Dios your God? For spanish people Dios is our God.

Is Ganesh your God? Why not? If Jesus (God) has no divine attributes he could be the elephant god of Ganesh, couldn't he?

 

[jbh28]

Remember on the other thread you admitted Jesus is God.
Then you said, as you do here, that Jesus has no divine attributes.
I then challenged you that if Jesus, as God, has no divine attributes, how do you tell him apart from the Hindu elephant god, Ganesh? Which God is the true God. Both have divine attributes by their respective worshipers? You must be able to define the divine attributes of God in order to set him apart from other gods, from false gods.

You agreed.
Then you asked "what art the divine attributes of Jesus?"
This answer has been supplied for you many times.
Here it is again:

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1715430&postcount=80

These are the attributes of God; attributes of Jesus, that he never gave up. He always had these attributes. He was never "empty" of them. They are the ones that declare him to be God far above all other gods. You need to deal with this post.

He will never answer because their is no answer. Jesus is God. Jesus had all of the divine attributes. We have named the divine attributes that Jesus has.

 

[annsni]

Is Dios your God? For spanish people Dios is our God.

If it is the God of scripture, then yes. If it's a god of another religion that has some similarities to my God but is not the Biblical God then no.

 

[Goinheix]

Is Ganesh your God? Why not? If Jesus (God) has no divine attributes he could be the elephant god of Ganesh, couldn't he?

Ganesh is not God but a god. If you buy a english Bible you will read "God", if you buy a spanish Bible you will read "Dios". If the Bible you buy is portuguese you will read "Deus". If you buy an arabic Bible you will read "Alah".

 

[Goinheix]

If it is the God of scripture, then yes. If it's a god of another religion that has some similarities to my God but is not the Biblical God then no.

God for you and Dios for me, is the same only that in diferent leanguage. That God, who is the only real God is the God of Christians, the God of Abraham; the God of Ismael and the God of Isaac.

It makes not difference if the religion is catholic, baptis, anglican, methodist, or any other. God is always God. Mormosn and Witnesses as well of Adventist have a very bad doctrine, but they believe and hope in the same God as we do. The Jew are wrong concerning Jesus Christ but they have the some our God. Even the muslims in all the sects believ in the God of Abraham being our same God.

The fact that a religion be wrong in doctrine, does not mean that they trust in a different God.

But that is not including any other religion than those related with Abraham God.

 

[annsni]

Ganesh is not God but a god. If you buy a english Bible you will read "God", if you buy a spanish Bible you will read "Dios". If the Bible you buy is portuguese you will read "Deus". If you buy an arabic Bible you will read "Alah".

And the Muslim "Allah" is very different than the Biblical God. The Jehovah's Witnesses say they believe in God but just because they use the same word doesn't mean it's the same God of the Bible. The same with Jesus. They believe in Jesus as their Savior - that He died for their sins. Yet Jesus is not God. He is a created being. That's not the same Jesus I know. The Muslim Allah is not my God.

 

[annsni]

God for you and Dios for me, is the same only that in diferent leanguage. That God, who is the only real God is the God of Christians, the God of Abraham; the God of Ismael and the God of Isaac.

It makes not difference if the religion is catholic, baptis, anglican, methodist, or any other. God is always God. Mormosn and Witnesses as well of Adventist have a very bad doctrine, but they believe and hope in the same God as we do. The Jew are wrong concerning Jesus Christ but they have the some our God. Even the muslims in all the sects believ in the God of Abraham being our same God.

The fact that a religion be wrong in doctrine, does not mean that they trust in a different God.

But that is not including any other religion than those related with Abraham God.

This really tells me that you are not Baptist - nor are you in a solid church. I'm sorry but we stand on a different god. Mine is the one from the Bible not the same god of the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or Muslims. We have nothing further to talk about since our basis is totally different.

 

[Goinheix]

Here we go.
God the Son is God and have all divine attributes. That has never been questioned. God the Son did emty himself of all divine attributes he has, for entering the World as Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth did not have any divine attributes.
Now lets check out what divine attribute you have found in Jesus of Nazareth; not in God the Son but in Jesus of Nazareth who is the incarnation (without divine attributes) of God the Son.

A. Christ has SELF-EXISTENT life.

John 1:4 "In Him was life" IT IS REFERING TO THE VERB, TO THE WORD, TO GOD THE SON; NOT AT ALL TO JESUS OF NAZARETH

John 14:6 "I am the Life" THIS IS NOT A DIVINE ATRIBUTE. TO BE LIFE IS NOT A DIVINE ATRIBUTE IN ANY LISTING. AND IT IS NOT SAYING A WORD ABOUT SELF-EXISTENCE.

Acts 3:15 "the Prince (Author) of life" TO BE AUTHOR OF THE LIFE IS NOT A DIVINE ATRIBUTE, IS NOT PROVING SELF-EXISTENCE, AND IS TALKING ABOUT GOD THE SON.

B. Christ is ETERNAL.

Isaiah 9:6 "the everlasting Father" (or "the Father of eternity")
Micah 5:2 "whose goings forth have been of old, from everlasting"
Compare John 8:35; John 8:58; 1 John 1:2; 1 John 5:11.

IT IS TALKING OF GOD THE SON. WE KNOW THAT JESUS DID BIRTH.

C. Christ is UNCHANGEABLE.

Hebrews 1:10-12 "but thou art the same" IDS REFERING TO GOD THE SON NOT TO JESUS OF NAZARETH

Hebrews 13:8 "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, and today and forever" 13:9 IT IS TALKING ABOUT DOCTRINE. DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY CENTURIES HAVE PASS AND HOW MANY DOCTRINES HAVE BEEN PROPOSED, JESUS CHRIST IS THE SAME

JESUS DID GREW UP AND CHANGED. HE CHANGED SO MUCH THAT NOBODY COULD RECOGNICE HIM AFTER RESURRECTION

D. Christ is OMNIPRESENT.

See Matthew 28:20 THAT IS CLEARLY AFTER THE ASCENSION. JESUS IS TALKING OF THE SITUTION AFTER HIS ASCENCION.
JESUS WAS ALWAYS IN A SPECIFIC PLACE AND NOT IN OTHER. HE HAS TO TRAVEL. HE WAS NOT OMNIPRESENT.

E. Christ is OMNISCIENT.

See John 2:24-25 (compare Jeremiah 17:9-10);
John 6:64; 16:30; Colossians 2:3.
Examples:
Matthew 17:24-27
Luke 5:22
John 1:48
John 4:16-19
John 21:6
JEUS DID NOT KNOW TO MANY THINGS AND THAT IS A CLEAR SIGN OF NON OMNISCIENCE. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANY THING HE KNEW, HE DIDN’T KNEW THEM ALL. HE WAS NOT OMNISCIENT.

F. Christ is OMNIPOTENT.

See John 5:19 THIS VERSE IS SAYING THAT JESUS CAN DO NOTHING BUT… BEING UNABLE TO DO NOTHING BUT…IS NOT OMNIPOTENCE BAT TOTAL LACK OF POTENCY.

Philippians 3:20-21 GOD THE SON HAVE A LOT OF POWER. THIS IS GODS THE SON IN THE FUTURE, NOT JESUS OF NAZARETH IN EARTH.

Revelation 1:8 with Revelation 22:12-13 for identification. GOD THE SON, NOT JESUS OF NAZARETH

Examples: Luke 4:39; Matthew 8:26-27; Mark 5:12-13; Luke 7:14-15; John 2:19-22

G. Christ is PERFECT.

(the term "perfect" as used in Scripture generally means "complete, nothing lacking")
See Colossians 1:19 IS ABOUT GOD THE SON, NOT JESUS OF NAZARETH

Colossians 2:9-10 SAME

H. Christ is INFINITE.

See John 10:28 IT WAS NEVER QUESTIONED THAT WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE BY JESUS IN THE CROSS. IT IS SAYING NOTHIG OF JESUS OF NAZARET BEING INFINITE

Ephesians 3:8 INFINITE????

Colossians 2:3 GOD THE SON NOT JESUS OF NAZARETH

 

[Goinheix]

I can continue with all the listing; but I am realizing that there is not a point on doing it. You are inteligent and could found the same answers I am giving. You didnt not becaose lack of knowledge or light, but because you simply dont want to.

In all the Gospels, in all the NT, in all the Bible there is not a single insinuation of Jesus having not even one single divine atribute. Offcourse he have it before incarnation and after ascencion. Those divine atributes he has before and after and those atributes from wich he emtied out, and the atributes he did not have during his existence inn Earth as Jesus of Nazareth.

I belive that this one is a definetive answer destroying any atempt to support the false doctrine of Jesus with divine atributes. We are done. End.

 

[Goinheix]

And the Muslim "Allah" is very different than the Biblical God. The Jehovah's Witnesses say they believe in God but just because they use the same word doesn't mean it's the same God of the Bible. The same with Jesus. They believe in Jesus as their Savior - that He died for their sins. Yet Jesus is not God. He is a created being. That's not the same Jesus I know. The Muslim Allah is not my God.

Whatever...the point is that Jesus did not have any divine atributes as I have clearly demostrated.

 

[DHK]

Ganesh is not God but a god. If you buy a english Bible you will read "God", if you buy a spanish Bible you will read "Dios". If the Bible you buy is portuguese you will read "Deus". If you buy an arabic Bible you will read "Alah".

People read in their own language. If you read an Arabic Bible and read Allah, you will note that there is no capital letters in Arabic. The "A" is written in the same "case" all the time. There is only one way to write it.
The same is true in Hindi. If a Hindu says Ganesh is my God, he is saying: "ganesh is my god." or he is saying it all in capitals. There is only one case--no capital letters. So your argument holds no water. If he writes about Jesus, Christ, God, Ganesh, all would start with the same kind of letter. There are no Capital or Upper case letters. So how would you differentiate between the two Gods if your God "Jesus" doesn't have any divine attributes?

 

[annsni]

I can continue with all the listing; but I am realizing that there is not a point on doing it. You are inteligent and could found the same answers I am giving. You didnt not becaose lack of knowledge or light, but because you simply dont want to.

In all the Gospels, in all the NT, in all the Bible there is not a single insinuation of Jesus having not even one single divine atribute. Offcourse he have it before incarnation and after ascencion. Those divine atributes he has before and after and those atributes from wich he emtied out, and the atributes he did not have during his existence inn Earth as Jesus of Nazareth.

I belive that this one is a definetive answer destroying any atempt to support the false doctrine of Jesus with divine atributes. We are done. End.

Yes, we are done because the answers have been given and you do not accept them. Argue against Scripture - that is your choice but do not change God from what the Bible says and call yourself Baptist.

 

[Goinheix]

This really tells me that you are not Baptist - nor are you in a solid church. I'm sorry but we stand on a different god. Mine is the one from the Bible not the same god of the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses or Muslims. We have nothing further to talk about since our basis is totally different.

you have been reported for questionig my statement of being baptist and to believe in the only God. dont you dare doing it againg. you are not who to judge me.

focus on the topic. Jesus had not divine atributes.

 

[Goinheix]

Yes, we are done because the answers have been given and you do not accept them. Argue against Scripture - that is your choice but do not change God from what the Bible says and call yourself Baptist.

can you refute my replay? can you? do it. dont do it? is because you cant.
you should be accepting the Bible yourself.

 

[annsni]

Whatever...the point is that Jesus did not have any divine atributes as I have clearly demostrated.

No, you have not. You have ignored the clear teaching of just the opposite.

 

[annsni]

you have been reported for questionig my statement of being baptist and to believe in the only God. dont you dare doing it againg. you are not who to judge me.

focus on the topic. Jesus had not divine atributes.

I am to judge the teaching of others who state they are of the brethren.

Thank you for reporting me. It's a waste of the moderators' time but whatever.

Jesus not only had divine attributes, He was divine as is clearly spoken of in the Scriptures.

 

[Goinheix]

No, you have not. You have ignored the clear teaching of just the opposite.

prover it.
refute me.
post anything.

 

[Goinheix]

I am to judge the teaching of others who state they are of the brethren.

Thank you for reporting me. It's a waste of the moderators' time but whatever.

Jesus not only had divine attributes, He was divine as is clearly spoken of in the Scriptures.

I know that reporting to the administrators is a waste of time. The point is making clear that they are not defending me as they are ready to attack me.

You and all in this forum have failed to show a single divine atribute in Jesus. Saying the oposiute is sing of blidness.

 

[annsni]

I know that reporting to the administrators is a waste of time. The point is making clear that they are not defending me as they are ready to attack me.

You and all in this forum have failed to show a single divine atribute in Jesus. Saying the oposiute is sing of blidness.

Yes, since you do not see what has been posted....