Killing Calvinism: How to Destroy a Perfectly Good Theology from the Inside

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And Jesus' disciples made this distinction also, and the Apostles? Do you have a biblical example? Or did you create this distinction yourself? So what does this look like? Do you ask a person if they are an unbeliever before you say anything about Jesus Christ to them, just to make sure you are not witnessing to an unbeliever?

Yes as a matter ofthe fact. I do. Most Aethiests are only to proud to tell me that they are unbelievers. These are the type who tell me they don't want to hear it. Now what would you do in that case, blather on and on and on?

 

[steaver]

Yes as a matter ofthe fact. I do. Most Aethiests are only to proud to tell me that they are unbelievers. These are the type who tell me they don't want to hear it. Now what would you do in that case, blather on and on and on?

You have to ask them if they are an unbeliever. You have to define unbeliever of what before they can answer. You have to say an unbeliever in Jesus Christ. They may not ever heard of Jesus Christ, you must explain who He was and what He did. You just witnessed Jesus Christ to an unbeliever. Even the Elect are unbelievers until they hear the Gospel. So I have no idea what form of witnessing you have conjured up, deciding who gets to hear and who does not. I prefer just sticking with the bible's instructions on it and preaching to all and not stepping on the work of Holy Spirit's. I'm sure God doesn't need me to decide who is the unbeliever and who is not.

Many Atheist become believers after hearing Jesus Christ, some instantly, some after many years of debate and study and hearing witnessing by believers. You are trying to do the Holy Spirit's work by judging who should hear and who should not. And most unbelievers are not Atheist anyways.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You have to ask them if they are an unbeliever. You have to define unbeliever of what before they can answer. You have to say an unbeliever in Jesus Christ. They may not ever heard of Jesus Christ, you must explain who He was and what He did. You just witnessed Jesus Christ to an unbeliever. Even the Elect are unbelievers until they hear the Gospel. So I have no idea what form of witnessing you have conjured up, deciding who gets to hear and who does not. I prefer just sticking with the bible's instructions on it and preaching to all and not stepping on the work of Holy Spirit's. I'm sure God doesn't need me to decide who is the unbeliever and who is not.

Many Atheist become believers after hearing Jesus Christ, some instantly, some after many years of debate and study and hearing witnessing by believers. You are trying to do the Holy Spirit's work by judging who should hear and who should not. And most unbelievers are not Atheist anyways.

So what do you extrapolate from this scripture?
Luke 16:16-31

16 “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. 17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

 

[Rippon]

1st. I do NOT actively witness Christ to unbelievers (an unbeliever is non-elect) ...but if you are referring to the regenerate elect, to unregenerate elect, yes both & I do actively witness to them? It appears that you make no distinction whatever in the disposition of the non-elect and a regenerate elect person but I DO!

Your theology is nonsensical and unbiblical. In reality unbelievers are composed of both the elect and the non-elect. You do not have the ability to determine who the elect unbelievers are and the non-elect unbelievers. No mortal has that gift of discernment.

How in the world, as a Christian, can you say that you do not actively witness Christ to unbelievers?! There is no New Testament reference that you can come up with to defend your take.

You believe it is not necessay to evangelize the lost --that's is pathetic.

 

[Rippon]

Yes I can see where you are between a MacCarther and a Deaver....quite a pickle to be in.

Can you at least have the decency to spell their names correctly? It's John MacArthur and Mark Dever.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Can you at least have the decency to spell their names correctly? It's John MacArthur and Mark Dever.

No.....I could not care less....kinda shows dont it. Here is the one I will spell right...Jesus Christ. ALL OTHERS PALE BY CONTRAST. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Your theology is nonsensical and unbiblical. In reality unbelievers are composed of both the elect and the non-elect. You do not have the ability to determine who the elect unbelievers are and the non-elect unbelievers. No mortal has that gift of discernment.

How in the world, as a Christian, can you say that you do not actively witness Christ to unbelievers?! There is no New Testament reference that you can come up with to defend your take.

You believe it is not necessay to evangelize the lost --that's is pathetic.

They condemn themselves by their own testimony that they are aethiest. And I don't bother with aethiest. You don't like it, go join with the Arminians.

 

[Rippon]

They condemn themselves by their own testimony that they are aethiest [sic]. And I don't bother with aethiest. [sic]

You have cited no Scripture to support your claim that you, as a Christian, are not to witness --to evangelize the lost. You have given no biblical support to show that you have a way to divine a way to tell the difference between the unbelieving elect and the unbelieving non-elect.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You have cited no Scripture to support your claim that you, as a Christian, are not to witness --to evangelize the lost. You have given no biblical support to show that you have a way to divine a way to tell the difference between the unbelieving elect and the unbelieving non-elect.

Simpleton....again those who tell me they are Aethiests. Why don't you look up the word Aethiests in Websters.

 

[Rippon]

.again those who tell me they are Aethiests.[sic] Why don't you look up the word Aethiests[sic] in Websters.

If you don't even know how to spell the word why should you think anyone would think you know what you are talking about? It is apparent that you are not acquainted with Webster's dictionary.

Has there ever been anyone claiming to be an atheist who later becomes a Christian? Of course. And you should know, as one who reads the Bible that there are no true atheists.

You still have given no biblical support for any of the assertions you made. You have no scriptural ground to stand on.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

For the comfort and instruction of the Lord's people (Isa. 40: 1-2, 9; Eph.4: 11-16).

 

[steaver]

So what do you extrapolate from this scripture?
Luke 16:16-31

16 “The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing their way into it. 17 It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

18 “Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

You appear to take the position that anyone who is an elect will instantly receive the gospel with joy they very first time they hear it. We know from experience that this is not so. Paul is a perfect example.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If you don't even know how to spell the word why should you think anyone would think you know what you are talking about? It is apparent that you are not acquainted with Webster's dictionary.

Has there ever been anyone claiming to be an atheist who later becomes a Christian? Of course. And you should know, as one who reads the Bible that there are no true atheists.

You still have given no biblical support for any of the assertions you made. You have no scriptural ground to stand on.

You appear to take the position that anyone who is an elect will instantly receive the gospel with joy they very first time they hear it. We know from experience that this is not so. Paul is a perfect example.

Then explain to me what is it Christ is saying here.

 

[steaver]

Then explain to me what is it Christ is saying here.

He is saying if one does not listen to Moses and the Prophets concerning the Christ, they will not even listen if One be raised from the dead, a reference to His own resurrection.

Now you explain Paul hearing the Gospel for years, capturing Christians to be killed, and being an unbeliever for quite awhile.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

He is saying if one does not listen to Moses and the Prophets concerning the Christ, they will not even listen if One be raised from the dead, a reference to His own resurrection.

Now you explain Paul hearing the Gospel for years, capturing Christians to be killed, and being an unbeliever for quite awhile.

He wasn't an unbeliever....he believed in religion (that of the Jews) so he felt he was to destroy all detractors.

 

[Rippon]

How in the world is my post #50 related to Steaver's post? You conflated both of ours in your number 53.

You still haven't answered my questions.

 

[steaver]

He wasn't an unbeliever....he believed in religion (that of the Jews) so he felt he was to destroy all detractors.

Then there is no such thing as an "unbeliever" according to your pov, there are even those who believe in Evolution (Atheist for example). Your are being ridiculous and I "believe" you know this. We are commanded to preach and persuade men, we have no idea who are the elect and when the bible speaks of "unbelievers" it is specifically speaking of those who do not believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Matters not what ever else they believe in. Paul was an "unbeliever" for many years before Jesus Christ stopped him in his murderous tracks.

 

[Rippon]

Then there is no such thing as an "unbeliever" according to your pov, there are even those who believe in Evolution (Atheist for example). You are being ridiculous and I "believe" you know this. We are commanded to preach and persuade men, we have no idea who are the elect and when the bible speaks of "unbelievers" it is specifically speaking of those who do not believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. Matters not what ever else they believe in. Paul was an "unbeliever" for many years before Jesus Christ stopped him in his murderous tracks.

There are not many times when I can say this: Steaver, I agree entirely with the above post of yours.

 

[Revmitchell]

He wasn't an unbeliever....he believed in religion (that of the Jews) so he felt he was to destroy all detractors.

Uh what? He was no doubt an unbeliever as he denied Christ.

 

[Iconoclast]

Uh what? He was no doubt an unbeliever as he denied Christ.

When people are not sitting under a God called man in a solid Nt church, they drift into strange ideas.getting teaching second hand and hiding behind others does not produce good fruit.....:thumbsup:


12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;

13 Who was before a blasphemer,

and a persecutor,

and injurious:
but I obtained mercy, because .......I did it ignorantly in unbelief.:wavey: