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Kingdom Exclusion

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Lacy Evans, Sep 7, 2006.

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  1. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    Yet the Bible tells us that we need to be righteous in the present tense. If all saved people are righteous, why the exhortations to be righteous?

    Luke 1:6 tells us that Zecharias and Elizabeth were righteous. Why? Because they walked in the ordinances and commandments of the Lord. Works.
     
    #301 Hope of Glory, Sep 20, 2006
  2. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word New Member

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    Subsets of disciples were apostles? According to my Bible the disciples were made Apostles. How did they become subsets of themselves?

    Next, someone will be trying to tell me that the wives of the Apostles were called Epistles.
     
    #302 Diggin in da Word, Sep 20, 2006
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  3. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word New Member

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    From Witness Lee's book, 'A Brief Definition of the Kingdom of the Heavens':
    Righteousness refers to our relationship with others?
     
    #303 Diggin in da Word, Sep 20, 2006
  4. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    You're not making much sense. Are you trying to say that all the disciples were made into apostles or what?
     
    #304 Hope of Glory, Sep 20, 2006
  5. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word New Member

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    Peter, John and James for sure. As to the others, I have to say they met the requirements (except for Judas Iscariot, of course).

    1. To have companied with Him before His death
    2. To have witnessed Him after His resurrection.

    Correction. After finding the verses in the Gospel that show the twelve were indeed Apostles, the two points above were to pick out an Apostle to replace Judas (Acts 1:24, 25.
     
    #305 Diggin in da Word, Sep 20, 2006
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  6. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word New Member

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    Actually, the twelve were Apostles according to scripture. Judas Iscariot included.
     
    #306 Diggin in da Word, Sep 20, 2006
  7. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    So, then, are you somehow claiming that the apostles were not disciples?
     
    #307 Hope of Glory, Sep 20, 2006
  8. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word New Member

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    The disciples were made apostles by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

    The word disciple means follower of Christ. In His calling the disciples, He gave the command follow me.

    After they became disciples, He later made them Apostles.

    Apostle means messenger, or one who is sent.

    Look at Matthew 10 verses 7 and 8. Jesus sent them out to preach the Kingdom, to heal sick, to raise the dead, to cleanse lepers, and to cast out devils.

    The same can be said of all God's Children. First we are told to follow Him, to learn of Him. Then we are told to go and be a witness to others.
     
    #308 Diggin in da Word, Sep 20, 2006
  9. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

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    And, did he not have many, many disciples that were not apostles?
     
    #309 Hope of Glory, Sep 20, 2006
  10. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    (Emphasis in bold is mine)
    Looks like Watchman Nee DID teach baptismal regeneration, as TinyTim stated. Witness Lee was a disciple Watchman Nee. So, if you say that Witness Lee turned out to be a crackpot, what say you about Watchman Nee?
     
    #310 Linda64, Sep 20, 2006
  11. Diggin in da Word

    Diggin in da Word New Member

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    Forgive me, but I have to laugh. You saying Nee! Nee! Nee! reminded me of a movie I saw many years ago in which there were an order of knights that said NEE! lol

    Ok, the moment has passed. Nee has been proven from his own writings to have believed in baptismal regeneration, another of his many false doctrines. And Lee, a follower and learner of Nee's (Ha!, sorry, guess the moment was not completely gone) teachings has continued to spread his false doctrines along with many more.
     
    #311 Diggin in da Word, Sep 20, 2006
  12. Linda64

    Linda64 New Member

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    I have not seen one scripture posted on this thread that SPECIFICALLY states that the "unfaithful" believers will be "cast into outer darkness for 1,000 years."
     
    #312 Linda64, Sep 20, 2006
  13. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Then you must not be following the thread very closely, becuase I specifically told you to look at the parable of the talents, pounds and virgins just for beginners.
     
    #313 J. Jump, Sep 20, 2006
  14. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    32 pages already?!!

    Lacy, James Newman, Faust, and others saying 'kingdom' is a thousand years reign.

    I suggest you, look in 'Strong's' Cordance, for the word, 'kingdom' with list of verses. You cannot find a verse anywhere in Bible saying it is so called a thousand years. There are two words of 'kingdom' cuts into two words- 'king' and 'dom' means, King dominions. Christ is now already reign from his throne in the heaven, he is now rule both in heaven and earth since he ascended back into heaven 2,000 years ago. When He will come, he remain continuing reigning, because his kingdom have no end, it is an everlasting according Daniel 7:14,18.

    There is not a single hint find anywhere in the Bible saying that kingdom is a temporary.

    You need a soild evidence find where in the Bible saying that the kingdom is a temporary.

    That why I strong disagree with Faust, Whipple, and Nee's teaching of kingdom exclusion doctrine, their teachings are man-making doctrines according Colossians 2:8. I do have book "The Rod" by Faust. He quoted notes or comment from commentators or authors tooooooo much. Seems to me, he spend time read men's comments instead depend on God's Word, what it saith.

    I rather follow what the Bible saying than what men saying according Col. 2:8.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #314 DeafPosttrib, Sep 20, 2006
  15. J. Jump

    J. Jump New Member

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    Yes but in the type you will also see that Lot ended up living in a cave on the side of the mountain, while Abraham was seen on top of the mountain in the presence of the Lord.

    Lot was saved from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but he wasn't seen in the presence of the Lord like Abraham.
     
    #315 J. Jump, Sep 20, 2006
  16. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    Thank you Diggin! This is a wonderful example in the NT of how the OT type holds.

    Jesus shed his blood and right before he died, he said "It is finished!" He was dead and his work was done. Praise God! His justifying work was finished. Blood Alone!

    Then AFTER the shedding of his sacrificial atoning blood, only then did he shed blood and water.

    Lacy

    PS. Before I will let you pass you must bring me . . .er . . .uh . . . ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!!!!
     
    #316 Lacy Evans, Sep 20, 2006
  17. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    2Ti 2:12 -
    If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

    Ac 14:22 -
    Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

    Joh 3:5 -
    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Mt 5:20 -
    For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Mt 7:21 -
    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Mt 18:3 -
    And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Mt 19:23 -
    Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Mt 19:24 -
    And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

    1Co 6:9 -
    Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    1Co 6:10 -
    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    Ga 5:21 -
    Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God

    1 Cor 3:
    13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
    14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
    16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
    17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
    18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

    (If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.)

    Phil 3:
    11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
    12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    1Co 9:27 -
    But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

    Heb 6:
    4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

    Rom 11
    21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
    22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off
     
    #317 Lacy Evans, Sep 20, 2006
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  18. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    If anyone needs a shrubbery, I happen to be a shrubber, by trade.
     
    #318 npetreley, Sep 20, 2006
  19. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib New Member

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    Lacy,

    You quoted of John 3:5; Mt. 5:20; Mt. 7:21; Mt. 18:3; Mt. 19:24; 1 Cor. 6:9,10; and Gal. 5:21- all of these are speak of shall not have eternal life, go into everlasting punishment. None of these are speak of a thousand years or "millennial" kingdom either.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #319 DeafPosttrib, Sep 20, 2006
  20. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans New Member

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    DPT, while I admire your consistency, I must respectfully disagree with you on your view, conditional assurance. That doctrine forces us to look at ourselves for salvation instead of the finished work of Christ.

    Opposite truths don't cancel one another out. (For example God's "threeness" doesn't cancel out his "oneness", and his "soverignty" doesn't cancel out man's "free will")

    You don't effectively deal with the scriptures that prove that God will never disown his own children. You seem to be cancelling out one truth with another one.

    Lacy
     
    #320 Lacy Evans, Sep 20, 2006
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