Kingdom Exclusion

[Hope of Glory]

Yet the Bible tells us that we need to be righteous in the present tense. If all saved people are righteous, why the exhortations to be righteous?

Luke 1:6 tells us that Zecharias and Elizabeth were righteous. Why? Because they walked in the ordinances and commandments of the Lord. Works.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Well, you are correct that a person is either spiritually saved or unsaved. But, just as there were disciples (saved) that were separate from the unsaved, there were also subsets of the disciples: The apostles. There were even subsets of the apostles in that some were able to go on with him, and one that was "loved" by him. In the same way, out of those who are saved, there are those who will receive crowns, and some will rule over 5 cities and some over 10.

Subsets of disciples were apostles? According to my Bible the disciples were made Apostles. How did they become subsets of themselves?

Next, someone will be trying to tell me that the wives of the Apostles were called Epistles.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

From Witness Lee's book, 'A Brief Definition of the Kingdom of the Heavens':

In Romans 14:17 the apostle Paul tells us that the kingdom of God is “righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.” Righteousness refers to your relationship with others. As to yourself you must be righteous. With others you must be peaceful. With God you must be joyful. If you are not joyful before God and with God, that means you are wrong. Our daily living must match Romans 14:17.

Righteousness refers to our relationship with others?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Subsets of disciples were apostles? According to my Bible the disciples were made Apostles. How did they become subsets of themselves?

Next, someone will be trying to tell me that the wives of the Apostles were called Epistles.

You're not making much sense. Are you trying to say that all the disciples were made into apostles or what?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Peter, John and James for sure. As to the others, I have to say they met the requirements (except for Judas Iscariot, of course).

1. To have companied with Him before His death
2. To have witnessed Him after His resurrection.

Correction. After finding the verses in the Gospel that show the twelve were indeed Apostles, the two points above were to pick out an Apostle to replace Judas (Acts 1:24, 25.

 

[Diggin in da Word]

Actually, the twelve were Apostles according to scripture. Judas Iscariot included.

Matthew 10:2-4 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

 

[Hope of Glory]

So, then, are you somehow claiming that the apostles were not disciples?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

The disciples were made apostles by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

The word disciple means follower of Christ. In His calling the disciples, He gave the command follow me.

After they became disciples, He later made them Apostles.

Apostle means messenger, or one who is sent.

Look at Matthew 10 verses 7 and 8. Jesus sent them out to preach the Kingdom, to heal sick, to raise the dead, to cleanse lepers, and to cast out devils.

The same can be said of all God's Children. First we are told to follow Him, to learn of Him. Then we are told to go and be a witness to others.

 

[Hope of Glory]

And, did he not have many, many disciples that were not apostles?

 

[Linda64]

I remember reading this back in the 80's tim. Sadly, many think one is not saved if one does not get baptized.

Many might but Nee didn't!

NEE! NEE! NEE! Can you not read? I don't own a single book by Lee and I already said he turned out to be a crackpot. But you keep saying "THEY" insinuating thae NEE taught baptismal regeneration, which is false!

There is no doubt that he who believes has eternal life. We have been preaching this for many years. Once a person believes in the Lord Jesus, he has eternal life and is saved forever. All problems are solved. But please remember that if a person believes but is not baptized, he is still not saved. Indeed, you may have believed and you may have eternal life, but are you saved in the eyes of the world? If you are not baptized, you are not saved, because no one knows that you are different. You must rise up and be baptized, declaring that you have terminated your relationship with the world. Only then will you be saved.
New Believer's Series (01)-Baptism by Watchman Nee
http://www.ministrybooks.org/alphabetical.cfm#N

(Emphasis in bold is mine)
Looks like Watchman Nee DID teach baptismal regeneration, as TinyTim stated. Witness Lee was a disciple Watchman Nee. So, if you say that Witness Lee turned out to be a crackpot, what say you about Watchman Nee?

 

[Diggin in da Word]

NEE! NEE! NEE! Can you not read? I don't own a single book by Lee and I already said he turned out to be a crackpot. But you keep saying "THEY" insinuating thae NEE taught baptismal regeneration, which is false!

Forgive me, but I have to laugh. You saying Nee! Nee! Nee! reminded me of a movie I saw many years ago in which there were an order of knights that said NEE! lol

Ok, the moment has passed. Nee has been proven from his own writings to have believed in baptismal regeneration, another of his many false doctrines. And Lee, a follower and learner of Nee's (Ha!, sorry, guess the moment was not completely gone) teachings has continued to spread his false doctrines along with many more.

 

[Linda64]

Conclusion

Who Are Those Who Do Not Inherit the Kingdom?

The “unrighteous” that Paul is referring to in 1 Corinthians 6:9 are unsaved people who have never been justified. They are “unjust” in contrast to “saints” (compare 1 Cor. 6:1). Contrary to what Hodges and Dillow teach, the “unrighteous” do not refer to a group of carnal believers who are eternally saved but who will not inherit the kingdom and will not reign with Christ. The passage teaches nothing of the kind. Indeed, Paul teaches that all those who are saved are not unrighteous because they have been washed, sanctified and justified! This would include the carnal Corinthians!

Those who profess faith in Christ but who then persist in a wicked and immoral lifestyle, such as characterizes the unregenerate, are giving evidence that they have never been born again. God’s Word certainly recognizes the problem of carnality among God’s saints (1 Cor. 3:1-4), but Paul in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 is contrasting those who are unrighteous with those, including the carnal Corinthians, who WERE unrighteous but who have been justified by faith. All those who are justified by faith are righteous in Christ and will inherit the kingdom. Those who “shall not inherit the kingdom” is not a description of fleshly believers who do not qualify for kingdom rewards. Those who “shall not inherit the kingdom” are the unregenerate, whose destiny is the lake of fire.

--George Zeller (revised 6/02, 7/06)
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/inherit.htm

I have not seen one scripture posted on this thread that SPECIFICALLY states that the "unfaithful" believers will be "cast into outer darkness for 1,000 years."

 

[J. Jump]

I have not seen one scripture posted on this thread that SPECIFICALLY states that the "unfaithful" believers will be "cast into outer darkness for 1,000 years."

Then you must not be following the thread very closely, becuase I specifically told you to look at the parable of the talents, pounds and virgins just for beginners.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

32 pages already?!!

Lacy, James Newman, Faust, and others saying 'kingdom' is a thousand years reign.

I suggest you, look in 'Strong's' Cordance, for the word, 'kingdom' with list of verses. You cannot find a verse anywhere in Bible saying it is so called a thousand years. There are two words of 'kingdom' cuts into two words- 'king' and 'dom' means, King dominions. Christ is now already reign from his throne in the heaven, he is now rule both in heaven and earth since he ascended back into heaven 2,000 years ago. When He will come, he remain continuing reigning, because his kingdom have no end, it is an everlasting according Daniel 7:14,18.

There is not a single hint find anywhere in the Bible saying that kingdom is a temporary.

You need a soild evidence find where in the Bible saying that the kingdom is a temporary.

That why I strong disagree with Faust, Whipple, and Nee's teaching of kingdom exclusion doctrine, their teachings are man-making doctrines according Colossians 2:8. I do have book "The Rod" by Faust. He quoted notes or comment from commentators or authors tooooooo much. Seems to me, he spend time read men's comments instead depend on God's Word, what it saith.

I rather follow what the Bible saying than what men saying according Col. 2:8.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[J. Jump]

Yes. We are all in Chirst, making us righteous in him. Was not Lot called righteous in the sinful state he was living in?

Yes but in the type you will also see that Lot ended up living in a cave on the side of the mountain, while Abraham was seen on top of the mountain in the presence of the Lord.

Lot was saved from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, but he wasn't seen in the presence of the Lord like Abraham.

 

[Lacy Evans]

John 19:34 34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

It is not our works, but Christ's finished work on the cross. There is the water Christ was speaking of... Directly from the side of the Savior. Christ was pointing to the cross in his discourse with Nicodemus by night!

Thank you Diggin! This is a wonderful example in the NT of how the OT type holds.

Jesus shed his blood and right before he died, he said "It is finished!" He was dead and his work was done. Praise God! His justifying work was finished. Blood Alone!

Then AFTER the shedding of his sacrificial atoning blood, only then did he shed blood and water.

Lacy

PS. Before I will let you pass you must bring me . . .er . . .uh . . . ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!!!!

 

[Lacy Evans]

The chastening of God does not mean exclusion from the Kingdom.

2Ti 2:12 -
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Ac 14:22 -
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 -
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mt 5:20 -
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 7:21 -
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mt 18:3 -
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 19:23 -
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Mt 19:24 -
And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

1Co 6:9 -
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1Co 6:10 -
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ga 5:21 -
Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God

It means loss of rewards, not punishment as some would imply.

1 Cor 3:
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

Even Paul wrote some would suffer loss. He did not say they would suffer punishment, but loss. That loss is loss of rewards. Those rewards are crowns.

(If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.)

Phil 3:
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

1Co 9:27 -
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Heb 6:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Rom 11
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off

 

[npetreley]

PS. Before I will let you pass you must bring me . . .er . . .uh . . . ANOTHER SHRUBBERY!!!!

If anyone needs a shrubbery, I happen to be a shrubber, by trade.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Lacy,

You quoted of John 3:5; Mt. 5:20; Mt. 7:21; Mt. 18:3; Mt. 19:24; 1 Cor. 6:9,10; and Gal. 5:21- all of these are speak of shall not have eternal life, go into everlasting punishment. None of these are speak of a thousand years or "millennial" kingdom either.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Lacy Evans]

Lacy,

You quoted of John 3:5; Mt. 5:20; Mt. 7:21; Mt. 18:3; Mt. 19:24; 1 Cor. 6:9,10; and Gal. 5:21- all of these are speak of shall not have eternal life, go into everlasting punishment. None of these are speak of a thousand years or "millennial" kingdom either.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

DPT, while I admire your consistency, I must respectfully disagree with you on your view, conditional assurance. That doctrine forces us to look at ourselves for salvation instead of the finished work of Christ.

Opposite truths don't cancel one another out. (For example God's "threeness" doesn't cancel out his "oneness", and his "soverignty" doesn't cancel out man's "free will")

You don't effectively deal with the scriptures that prove that God will never disown his own children. You seem to be cancelling out one truth with another one.

Lacy