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KJV is well loved and used

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TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
Sam, I am still waiting for your response to my post on page 1 of this thread.

Pastor Sam said: ↑
We have some people who don’t think for themselves but keep repeating what others have said. Some like the Democrats.
I then asked:
"But aren't you doing the same thing, Sam by saying
Pastor Sam said: ↑
I think that we are seeing that with all of these new translations we are getting a watered down version of what God is really saying. Everyone has an opinion but what does God say?
You have not demonstrated, using your own original exegesis, that all, or even any, modern translations are watered down. You seem to be repeating what others have said. Like some Democrats. :)
 

rlvaughn

Well-Known Member
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I said .1% of people, especially folks with English as a second language do not associate the word 'let' meaning hinder.
Now I'm confused. I thought you meant 99.9% do not associate the word "let" as meaning hinder?
To 99.9% of native English speakers, not to mention those who have English as their second language -- it means to allow or permit.
Oh, and if you're bolding the .1% because I said 99% instead of 99.9%, be aware that I was responding the simpler 99% in two other people's posts.
Good for you. I agree.
As the old saying goes, "There's a first time for everything!" :)
 

Rob_BW

Well-Known Member
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atpollard

Well-Known Member
After reviewing the data I've changed my number to 94%.
:p:Roflmao

Member 1: "By brother is visiting from out of town and wanted to practice on the courts."

Guard: "So, let him."

****

Will the guest enter the court to play tennis because "let him" means "allow him", or will they find another court to practice on because a "let" is when a ball hits the net and "let him" means "he is forbidden"?
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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I quite like the K.J.V. I'm always happy to preach from it if a church askes me to do so. But I don't think I could join a church that used it exclusively. When one is preaching from it, one first has to explain what it means in modern English, before starting an exposition.

There are four main problems with the K.J.V. as I see it.

1. The English language, like every other, has changed over the past four hundred years. Words alter their meanings over time. In 2Thes 2:7, the K.J.V. translates, ‘Only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.’ The word ‘let’ in the 17th Century, meant to restrain or hinder; today, of course, it means ‘allow.’ Therefore the verse means the exact opposite of what the K.J.V. says it means. The N.I.V. (and other modern versions) translate correctly, ‘But the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.’

2. Some of the language in the K.J.V. is scarcely comprehensible even allowing for the archaic language. Consider Ezek 41:7. ‘And there was an enlarging, and a winding about still upward to the side chambers; for the winding about of the house went still upward round about the house: therefore the breadth of the house was still upward, and so increased from the lowest chamber to the highest by the midst.’ This may be a word-for-word translation, but what on earth does it mean? A translation that is so literal that no one can understand it is of limited use.

3. Supporters of the K.J.V. make great play on the fact that some modern translations omit references to the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, as indeed they do (except the N.K.J.V.). The most frequently cited verse is 1Timothy 3:16, though there are several others. Less well known is that there are two places where all the modern translations affirm the deity of our Lord, but the K.J.V. does not.

Titus 2:13, K.J.V. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.’

Titus 2:13, N.I.V. ‘While we wait for the blessed hope- the glorious appearing of our great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ’ (other modern versions are similar).

2Peter 1:1b, K.J.V. ‘…..To them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.’

2Peter 1:1b, N.I.V. ‘….To those who through the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ have obtained a faith as precious as ours’ (other modern versions are similar).

The only modern translation that supports the K.J.V. in these two texts is the New World Translation of the Jehovah’s Witnesses! Just in case it might be thought that the K.J.V. is right in these instances, let the reader look at 2 Peter 1:11. Here the K.J.V. rightly translates, ‘….our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.’ Yet the Greek construction here is exactly the same as in 1:1. I have no doubt that all the translators of the A.V. were staunch Trinitarians, but it ill behoves K.J.V. supporters to sneer at the N.I.V. while the K.J.V. contains such serious errors.

4. There is also another place where the K.J.V. finds itself in agreement with the J.W.s. In John 1:32, it denies the personality of the Holy Spirit, referring to Him as ‘it.’ If a new Bible version appeared today with a similar error in it, the supporters of the KJV would be the first to pillory both the version and its translators .

Let me be clear once again. I am not saying that the K.J.V. is a bad translation or that it is worse than the N.I.V. The N.I.V. falls short on numerous occasions. What I am saying is that the question of Bible translations should not be made an excuse for separation. Let discussion continue by all means, but in a spirit of love while we contend for the Gospel of Christ. If the N.K.J.V. is not acceptable, let us have a new version based on the traditional texts, produced by a Christian organization. I can think of no one better to do it that the Trinitarian Bible Society. There is a Spanish Bible version, the Reina Valera, that is even older than the K.J.V., and based upon the same texts. Yet this version has been regularly updated as the Spanish language has changed. Revisions were made in 1909, in 1960, and now I understand that the T.B.S. has recently made a new revision. Quite right! If the K.J.V. had been carefully revised every 50 years or so, there might not have been the need for the plethora of new versions.
I am still looking for those passages where the Nas/Nkjv have denied the deity of Jesus, or any other Christian doctrine of the Faith!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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What would the fact that those who use the term of accusation "watered down version" do not define and explain what they mean by it and the fact that they do not present what clear, consistent, sound measures or standards are applied justly as the basis of its usage suggest?

It is fair, sound, and scriptural to ask concerning the measures or standards used as the basis for an accusation.

The KJV itself would suggest that any use of unjust divers measures, weights, balances, or standards would be an abomination to the LORD.
The easiest way to show that the KJVO position is faulty, would be to have them apply their own logic towards the Kjv itself!
 

Yeshua1

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I also think that words in the KJV which typical readers think that they know can cause misunderstanding when those words have a very different meaning than the ways that the words are used now. People do not look up words whose meanings that they assume that they know.

A typical one-volume English dictionary does not list all the archaic or old meanings that some words in the KJV may have and they may not list all the actual words found in the KJV.
One example would be the Kjv uses the term letteth for the Holy Spirit and the coming antichrist, while modern versions uses hinders....
 

Pastor_Bob

Well-Known Member
2. Some of the language in the K.J.V. is scarcely comprehensible...

To be fair, there are plenty of incomprehensible words in the newer translations as well. Consider one example out of dozens:

Esther 1:6 Where were white, green, and blue, hangings, fastened with cords of fine linen and purple to silver rings and pillars of marble: the beds were of gold and silver, upon a pavement of red, and blue, and white, and black, marble. (KJV)

Esther 1:6 The garden had hangings of white and blue linen, fastened with cords of white linen and purple material to silver rings on marble pillars. There were couches of gold and silver on a mosaic pavement of porphyry, marble, mother-of-pearl and other costly stones. (NIV)

Granted, a quick look in the dictionary would solve the problem. It's the same with the KJV or any translation. I would personally like to see the "hard to understand" indictment put to rest.
 

rlvaughn

Well-Known Member
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Interesting discovery as I continued to look at the word "let": This is not exactly a case of a word altering its meaning over time. Let ("to allow") and let ("to hinder") are actually two different English words that are spelled the same but mean something different, homonyms. You can do a search and check the KJV and see that the "to allow" version of "let" was in use in 1611 also (2 Thessalonians 2:3, e.g.).

Let(1)
Old English lǣtan ‘leave behind, leave out’, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch laten and German lassen
Let(2)
Old English lettan ‘hinder’, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch letten

Probably no one cares at this point; but your knowledge has increased exponentially! :Geek
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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Interesting discovery as I continued to look at the word "let": This is not exactly a case of a word altering its meaning over time. Let ("to allow") and let ("to hinder") are actually two different English words that are spelled the same but mean something different, homonyms. You can do a search and check the KJV and see that the "to allow" version of "let" was in use in 1611 also (2 Thessalonians 2:3, e.g.).

Let(1)
Old English lǣtan ‘leave behind, leave out’, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch laten and German lassen
Let(2)
Old English lettan ‘hinder’, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch letten

Probably no one cares at this point; but your knowledge has increased exponentially! :Geek
Most people reading the Kjv let would not see it mean to hinder!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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To be fair, there are plenty of incomprehensible words in the newer translations as well. Consider one example out of dozens:

Esther 1:6 Where were white, green, and blue, hangings, fastened with cords of fine linen and purple to silver rings and pillars of marble: the beds were of gold and silver, upon a pavement of red, and blue, and white, and black, marble. (KJV)

Esther 1:6 The garden had hangings of white and blue linen, fastened with cords of white linen and purple material to silver rings on marble pillars. There were couches of gold and silver on a mosaic pavement of porphyry, marble, mother-of-pearl and other costly stones. (NIV)

Granted, a quick look in the dictionary would solve the problem. It's the same with the KJV or any translation. I would personally like to see the "hard to understand" indictment put to rest.
The Kjv was using the language of its time, why not also use translations that reflect the English of the present time? The Elizabethan English was not more inspired than modern English . was it?
 

JonShaff

Fellow Servant
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We are detracting from the real issue at hand. Read the KJV, Read the NKJV, Read the NASB--stop pitting the Word against the Word, JUST READ THE BIBLE and be thankful we have amazing English translations.
 

rlvaughn

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Most people reading the Kjv let would not see it mean to hinder!
Ultimately, let's try not to be "most people" -- regardless of which version we are reading -- if "most people" are not studying the words of the Bible in addition to reading it.
 

Rob_BW

Well-Known Member
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If God spare my life, ere many yeares I wyl cause a boy that driveth the plough, and have an online subscription to the Oxford English Dictionary, to know more of the Scripture, than he doust. -- William Tyndale
 

rlvaughn

Well-Known Member
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If God spare my life, ere many yeares I wyl cause a boy that driveth the plough, who cannot read and doesn't know the meaning of any words, to know more of the Scripture, than he doust. -- William Tyndale
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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If God spare my life, ere many yeares I wyl cause a boy that driveth the plough, who cannot read and doesn't know the meaning of any words, to know more of the Scripture, than he doust. -- William Tyndale
There are some who have graduated in USA unable to read even the NIV readers edition, how can they understand Kjv?
 

TCassidy

Late-Administator Emeritus
Administrator
To be fair, there are plenty of incomprehensible words in the newer translations as well.
No, that can't be possible! Our resident bible expert has assured us that 99.9% of English speaking people are too dumb to know what those words mean.

But, of course, the new "easier to read" and "easier to understand" versions never have any words that all of the 99.9% are not familiar with.

For instance, everybody knows what this means, "Can that which is tasteless be eaten without salt, or is there any taste in the slime of the purslane?"

LOL! ROFLOL! Yep. I hear "slime of the purslane" every day in general conversation. Not to mention your example of the often heard and very popular porphyry, :D:D:D:D:D
 
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