"KJV", "KJVO", "1611KJV" on Church documents

[tinytim]

How many posters here have "KJVO", "KJV", or "KJV1611", or anything like them on your church's website, advertisements, flyers, or in your church's statement of faith?

When did your church adopt these terms?

If you use KJV1611 on your church's advertising do you actually use the 1611 at services?

If not, is that lying?

Just wondering.

 

[tinytim]

Here is a quote from John R. Rice from 1979.
in "Some questions for King James Fans":

1. What accepted Bible commentary, what statement of faith, of any church or denomination states that the King James Version is without error in translation?


Now if John R. Rice didn't know of any such statement, where did they exist befor 1979?

KJVO is a recent movement.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by tinytim:
KJVO is a recent movement.

YOur statement is correct.
The whole history of the KJVO movement
has occurred since i became a Christian
in 1952.

The duplicity i despise the most concerns the
New King James Version (nKJV).
A group of USA mainline groups desided
to make a new Translation using
parameters specified by the budding
KJVO movement.
Needless to say, the duplicity of the KJVOs
denies the nKJV is worthwhile.

I note that the KJV was translated
by Anglicans, the nKJV by Methodists,
Christians, Baptists and Pentacostals.
And the KJV is "better" than the nKJV

[revised by request]

[ January 28, 2004, 11:04 PM: Message edited by: Dr. Bob Griffin ]

 

[Dr. Bob]

The bankruptcy of the KJVO movement (those who claim AV1611 and don't even know they aren't preaching from one!!) is a tragic blight on the cause of fundamentalism.

At a time when there truly IS a "battle for the Bible" (borrowing a phrase from Lindsell) with liberalism and neo-pentecostalism, this "sideshow" arises to divide our movement.

 

[rbrent]

I got saved on November 10, 1958. We were members of Northside Baptist Church in Lima, Ohio, a GARB Church.

My Pastor Richard Spaulding, was preaching the Inspiration, Inerrancy and Infallibility of the KJV in Youth Camps in Colorado in the 1940ies and in our church in the 1950ies, long before Peter Ruckman got saved in 1949.

The Bible Believers Bulletin, published by Dr. Ruckman's Bible Baptist Church in Pensacola, FL has published many articles and statements of faith over the years, from the the 1800s and the early 1900s, stating that "our English Bible" meaning the KJV is the infallible, inspired word of God. Some of the published statements specifically mention the KJV.

There are Bible Institutes in India and in the Philippines which teach their preacher boys that the KJV is God's Infallible, Inspired Word.

There is a church in Hawaii - King James Baptist Church - started back in the 1970ies - which mentions the KJV in their Articles of Faith, as the Infallible word of God.

You fellas seem to be carrying a boatload of angst against folks who believe the KJV is the Infallible word of God.

 

[Fraser]

Hello, everyone!
As most of us know today the 1769 K.J.V is
used.( less printing mistakes)
I was raised on the K.J.V. and Saved through this Bible.I have seen God work through this Bible.But one thing people fail to realize.Theres
other bibles which you can still get Saved with.
I am not saying I agree with other bibles totally,but if a unbeleiver choses a bible,and receives Christ through it.As a babe in Christ its a good start bible.
Fraser.

 

[robycop3]

Originally posted by rbrent:
I got saved on November 10, 1958. We were members of Northside Baptist Church in Lima, Ohio, a GARB Church.

My Pastor Richard Spaulding, was preaching the Inspiration, Inerrancy and Infallibility of the KJV in Youth Camps in Colorado in the 1940ies and in our church in the 1950ies, long before Peter Ruckman got saved in 1949.

The Bible Believers Bulletin, published by Dr. Ruckman's Bible Baptist Church in Pensacola, FL has published many articles and statements of faith over the years, from the the 1800s and the early 1900s, stating that "our English Bible" meaning the KJV is the infallible, inspired word of God. Some of the published statements specifically mention the KJV.

There are Bible Institutes in India and in the Philippines which teach their preacher boys that the KJV is God's Infallible, Inspired Word.

There is a church in Hawaii - King James Baptist Church - started back in the 1970ies - which mentions the KJV in their Articles of Faith, as the Infallible word of God.

You fellas seem to be carrying a boatload of angst against folks who believe the KJV is the Infallible word of God.

If any Baptist with common sense has read several of Dr. Ruckman's books or articles, he/she will see he's phony as a $3 bill.

And our angst isn't against those who believe the KJV is the word of God. I believe that myself. Our "war" is against the false, man-made doctrine that the KJV is the ONLY valid English Bible translation.

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

Originally posted by tinytim:
If you use KJV1611 on your church's advertising do you actually use the 1611 at services?

If not, is that lying?

lying's never quite bothered KJBOism. based on plagiarism fr an Seventh-Day Adventist don, the whole movement runs on lies abt Westcott-Hort (have u seen them falsified letters peppered w ellipsis marks? ), textual history, other versions, etc.

one KJBO publication, the "Defined KJB"

has been exposed for several bald statements--http://www.post1.com/home/amarillo/revDKJB.htm

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by rbrent:
I got saved on November 10, 1958. We were members of Northside Baptist Church in Lima, Ohio, a GARB Church.

My Pastor Richard Spaulding, was preaching the Inspiration, Inerrancy and Infallibility of the KJV in Youth Camps in Colorado in the 1940ies and in our church in the 1950ies, long before Peter Ruckman got saved in 1949.

The Bible Believers Bulletin, published by Dr. Ruckman's Bible Baptist Church in Pensacola, FL has published many articles and statements of faith over the years, from the the 1800s and the early 1900s, stating that "our English Bible" meaning the KJV is the infallible, inspired word of God. Some of the published statements specifically mention the KJV.

There are Bible Institutes in India and in the Philippines which teach their preacher boys that the KJV is God's Infallible, Inspired Word.

There is a church in Hawaii - King James Baptist Church - started back in the 1970ies - which mentions the KJV in their Articles of Faith, as the Infallible word of God.

You fellas seem to be carrying a boatload of angst against folks who believe the KJV is the Infallible word of God.

Amen brother!

 

[Forever settled in heaven]

> Originally posted by rbrent:
> The Bible Believers Bulletin, published by Dr. Ruckman's Bible Baptist Church in Pensacola, FL has published many articles and statements of faith over the years, from the the 1800s and the early 1900s, stating that "our English Bible" meaning the KJV is the infallible, inspired word of God. Some of the published statements specifically mention the KJV.

actually, Ruckman might say it's the re-inspired word.

> There are Bible Institutes in India and in the Philippines which teach their preacher boys that the KJV is God's Infallible, Inspired Word.

know why? met some of them before. they've never had the chance of checking out the subject carefully n so fall prey to some of the cheap comic books (fr Chick.com) n other propaganda. then they go out n collar pastors n other bible students over the issue--often literally--in moblike fervour. all thx to KJBOism.

> There is a church in Hawaii - King James Baptist Church - started back in the 1970ies - which mentions the KJV in their Articles of Faith, as the Infallible word of God.

n that's supposed to be laudable?

> You fellas seem to be carrying a boatload of angst against folks who believe the KJV is the Infallible word of God.

no, just those who hiss good n loud.

 

[rbrent]

rbrent issues this correction to his previous post:

My 82 year old Dad tells me Pastor Spaulding's first name was Clark, not Richard.

Richard was the first name of Pastor MacIntosh, who succeeded Pastor Spaulding in 1958, and some years later, became Dean of Students at Cedarville College.

My Dad and Mom served as a Sunday School teachers and Dad served as a Deacon under both Pastors mentioned above - I was a kid at the time, born in 1950, hence his memory for their first names is better than mine.

Since my Mom and Pastor Spaulding and Pastor MacIntosh are now with the Lord, I expect they're rejoicing that their earthly battle is over.

Pastor MacIntosh is also the man who baptized me after I received the Lord Jesus as my Savior.

Forever Settled In Heaven:

> There is a church in Hawaii - King James Baptist Church - started back in the 1970ies - which mentions the KJV in their Articles of Faith, as the Infallible word of God.

n that's supposed to be laudable?

No, that's a response to the Question that started this thread.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Fraser:
Hello, everyone!
As most of us know today the 1769 K.J.V is
used.( less printing mistakes)
I was raised on the K.J.V. and Saved through this Bible.I have seen God work through this Bible.But one thing people fail to realize.Theres
other bibles which you can still get Saved with.
I am not saying I agree with other bibles totally,but if a unbeleiver choses a bible,and receives Christ through it.As a babe in Christ its a good start bible.
Fraser.

What you say
is true. I also was saved by words
from ak KJV1769 back in 1952. I memorized
many verses from that KJV1769.
However "As most of us know today
the 1769 K.J.V is used" is NOT correct.
Relative few (under 40%) of "us" know
that the KJV1769 is being used and the
word is that the AV1611 is being used.
The KJV1769 that i'm using now no where
says it is a KJV1769 - i had to determine
that by a test i found elsewhere.

 

[Fraser]

Hi again,
Do any of you beleive that God preserved His Word at all? if not, you are calling God a liar.
Secondly, The K.J.V has used 5000 plus manuscripts, or texts.The other bibles use some of these, plus the ancient manuscripts or texts.
Alexandria,Ceasar etc.The problem is these were not complete,and were corrupted,if you check with history.The comment made earlier reguarding the 1769 K.J,V is not the same as 1611.Is False!
Its easy to see I have a 1611 K.J.V and 1769 of today.They are the same.1611 has spelling mistakes.1769 not as many. (Fact)As I mentioned before,I have the newer bibles, or translations.
I see scripture added,and sadly to say taken away.
Most of these bibles, the translaters, didnt even beleive half what they were translating.(Fact)
Dig deep! look at the lives of these Translators YOU WILL BE SHOCKED !! Ex:The N.I.V one of the translators,said he made a mistake, and added perversion to the scriptures.And shortly after died.It was to late it was all ready on the printing press.Money, money,money.
Anyways,If you want prove I can supply the truth.
Word of caution! lets just say if the K.J.V. is Gods inspired Word. Look at the comments of slander you have provided against it.I would be frightened! In Christ Fraser.

 

[robycop3]

Sorry,Sir, you need to get your facts straight. First, the KJV didn't use 5K mss. That would be the newer versions, as most of these mss weren't discovered till the 19th-20th centuries. Next, the KJV was and is still sold for profit same as any other book. Third, please read a few bios of some of the AV translators & their boss, Archbishop Richard bancroft. They weren't exactly friends of the Baptists of their time. Fourth, please study the man-made origins of the modern KJVO doctrine to see it was started by a cult leader's book & is based upon double standards, guesswork, & outright lies.

Then, ask yourself: WHERE IS THE AUTHORITY FOR KJVO?

 

[RaptureReady]

Originally posted by Fraser:
Hi again,
Do any of you beleive that God preserved His Word at all? if not, you are calling God a liar.
Secondly, The K.J.V has used 5000 plus manuscripts, or texts.The other bibles use some of these, plus the ancient manuscripts or texts.
Alexandria,Ceasar etc.The problem is these were not complete,and were corrupted,if you check with history.The comment made earlier reguarding the 1769 K.J,V is not the same as 1611.Is False!
Its easy to see I have a 1611 K.J.V and 1769 of today.They are the same.1611 has spelling mistakes.1769 not as many. (Fact)As I mentioned before,I have the newer bibles, or translations.
I see scripture added,and sadly to say taken away.
Most of these bibles, the translaters, didnt even beleive half what they were translating.(Fact)
Dig deep! look at the lives of these Translators YOU WILL BE SHOCKED !! Ex:The N.I.V one of the translators,said he made a mistake, and added perversion to the scriptures.And shortly after died.It was to late it was all ready on the printing press.Money, money,money.
Anyways,If you want prove I can supply the truth.
Word of caution! lets just say if the K.J.V. is Gods inspired Word. Look at the comments of slander you have provided against it.I would be frightened! In Christ Fraser.

Amen and Amen! I look forward to this reaction.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Fraser: "Hi again, ... "

Hello again. Always good to have you in the frey.
The half-life of KJVOs on this board is about 2 weeks
-- that is half the KJVOs who post here are gone in
two weeks while the other half of KJVOs remain past
that time. I hope you are one who has more than
that to post.

Fraser: " ... Do any of you beleive that God preserved
His Word at all? if not, you are calling God a liar."

1. The phrase "do any of you" tend to show paranoia.
There is normal paranoia caused by the world we live
it (it sure isn't my home, i'm just living here for awile
until Jesus takes me to my real home). There is clinical
paranoia, only your mental health professional knows
whether you have that, or not. Since they can deal with
such a health problem, recommend you check with your
mental health professional.

2. Nobody here ever called God a liar.

3. This is part the statement of faith here which you agreed
to agree with (if you are Baptist) or at least not knock it
(if you are not Baptist).

I. The Scriptures

The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is God's
revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction.
It has God for its author, salvation for its end,
and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter.
Therefore, all Scripture is totally true and trustworthy.
It reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is,
and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union,
and the supreme standard by which all human conduct,
creeds, and religious opinions should be tried.
All Scripture is a testimony to Christ, who is Himself the focus of divine revelation.

Note the Phrase "It (Holy Bible) has ... "
This is NOT 'it had", past tense, but "it has" meaning
RIGHT NOW, the Holy Bible has these wonderful things for us.

Fraser: "Its easy to see I have a 1611 K.J.V and 1769 of today.They are the same."

I have one book called KJV1611.
I have another book called KJV1769
(though i admit, it doesn't itself note it is KJV1769,
I had to find out that from elsewhere).
They are IMHO different.
But they each individually and collectively contain
the written word of God.
My stand is i have 16 books on my computer hutch that
each individually and all collectively contain
the written word of God.
This is true presurvation of God's written word.

(BTW, i always like to say:
God has two "words":
1. the written word of God: the Holy Bible
2. the living word of God: Messiah Iesus.

People who say only the KJV1769 is the true preserved
word of God tend to defame my other 15 DIFFERENT
books (at arms reach) that also contain the word of God.
Please don't do that, it is an abomination to me.
Thank you.

 

[Anti-Alexandrian]

Sorry,Sir, you need to get your facts straight.

Pot calling the kettle black eh?

First, the KJV didn't use 5K mss.That would be the newer versions, as most of these mss weren't discovered till the 19th-20th centuries.

Nope,it(theKJB)came from the Graeco/Syrian mss. of the reformation;all Laodecean "bibles" come from inferior mss.(prepared by Gnostics and Philosophers in Alexandria,Egypt) that contains the Apocrypha -in OT&NT- as scripture, that would be the newer "bibles."

Next, the KJV was and is still sold for profit same as any other book.

So what? People gotta eat you know...

Third, please read a few bios of some of the AV translators & their boss, Archbishop Richard bancroft. They weren't exactly friends of the Baptists of their time.

I have. Just like some who need to look into the "bios" of those behind the "bibles" of today,for instance:

Jesuit
Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini,Roman Catholic Archbishop;he is the editor behind the NA/UBS text..

Fourth, please study the man-made origins of the modern KJVO doctrine to see it was started by a cult leader's book & is based upon double standards, guesswork, & outright lies.

Please study the man-made origins of the "bible" of the month club,that has it's foundation in Alexandria,Egypt;based on Philosophy,and Gnosticism and fueled by Genesis 3:1...

Then, ask yourself: WHERE IS THE AUTHORITY FOR KJVO?

Then afterwards,ponder this:WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY TO PUT ALEXANDRIAN PHILOSOPHERS,GNOSTICS,SCHOLARSHIP,OR MENS OPINIONS OVER WHAT GOD SAYS?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Anti-Alexandrian: //Please study the man-made origins of the "bible"
of the month club,that has it's foundation in Alexandria,Egypt;
based on Philosophy,and Gnosticism and fueled by Genesis 3:1...//

The only document i have on my computer desk that tells
of this is a comic book called SABOTAGE? (Chick Pubs., 1979)
by Jack T. Chick. Sorry, I don't have access to any of the
"proof" books it cites. I do note from the comic the following:

1. The people i've seen acting like Slator come more
frequently from the KJVO camp than the MV-users camp.

2. Nowhere does this comic note that there are over
2,000 variant readings in the non-Alexandrian Textus Receptus (TR).
These variant readings are noted in the REAL KING JAMES VERSION,
the KJV1611. These variant readings are not noted in the KJV1769.
That is why i say the two (KJV1611 and KJV1769) are different.
The notes in the real KJV1611 are not mentioned in the comic.

3. I would never get my doctrine from a comic book. So if i ever get a doctrine of men,
it won't be a doctrine of men from a comic book.

Have a nice day, i need to work for a living.

 

[Fraser]

Iam back again,
I dont want to stir hard feelings around here.
Christ does say love one another.
For you to say Iam totally wrong!
I think you should check out history on what I said! It comes from more than one site!
I have studied hours and hours, and you are telling me,that our Fathers,are wrong, on what they said? Study alittle more friend!
Do you even beleive the Bible is Gods Inspired Word, or are you lost? If we all beleive that there is no English inspired Word. Than we are all lost.How can one say Iam Saved through the Bible, and doubt it at the same time? neat trick, maybe you could teach me? I am no longer Baptist,my info is based on history!
The Alexander text is corrupt, K.J.V. Is NOT based on this text. But I see certain people are brain washed! When people are blind, where do you think this comes from, certainly not from God!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Fraser: "I am no longer Baptist ... "

You are not supposed to post then here in
Baptist DEBATE Forums (Baptist Only).

Go over to the "includes non-Baptists" area,
simiar topic:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=002340;p=3

See you there. God bless you.
I'll answer your comments there.