KJV-only myths about the 1769

[TCassidy]

Originally posted by Askjo:
You contradicted yourself. You believe that this verse 25 refers to a son of gods because Jesus is a son of godS.

Askjo, I know you are not terribly bright so I will try to make this as simple as possible so even you can understand it. I believe verse 25 says "a son of the gods" because that is the only way the Aramaic can be legitimately translated. I believe the person in the furnace was, in fact, the Lord Jesus Christ in His pre-incarnate form, but that is not what Nebuchadnezzar said. He said he saw one who was like unto "a son of the gods." Then in verse 28 he explains himself by saying it was an "angel" which he saw.

This is very obvious to show that you prefer MVs over the KJV because most MVs said, "a son of godS" instead of the Son of God in the KJV on this verse 25.

Once again you tell a terrible lie! I prefer the KJV over any modern version. But I am also honest enough to admit that, at times, the KJV translators engaged in interpretation instead of translation. I agree that the person in the furnace was the Son of God but to translate the Aramaic as "the Son of God" is to over translate the Aramaic term and interject their interpretation into the English text. When the translators of the modern versions do that you are the first to cry "foul!" but when the KJV translators do it you defend them even when it is obvious that it was interpretation rather than translation.

 

[robycop3]

Speaking of getting real...

How much more real did Nebuchadnezzar's idolatry hafta be? He set up an image & commanded all present to worship it! He even asked the 3 Jews who was able to deliver them outts his hands. He then became furious at their answer that THEIR God could, but they couldn't guarantee he would, but in any case they were NOT gonna worship Neb's idol.

Neb knew THEIR God had delivered them. Soon after, he said that their God had delivered them as no other god could. He also said that their God had sent his ANGEL to deliver them.(More than one pagan religion had angels or similar beings in their pantheon of supernatural beings.)

And again, not even Daniel spoke of the Son of God that we know of. Therefore 'a son of a god' seems to be the best rendering of the Aramaic.

(BTW, thanx, Eliyahu, hor your clarification.)

 

[robycop3]

Eliyahu:Therefore it is obvious without any doubt that King Nebuchadnezzar was talking about the Most High God, God of Israel, God of Daniel's friends, neither the gods, nor a god.

I agree that indeed Neb WAS talking about the real God, but he didn't suddenly just acquire the knowledge about Him that the righteous Jews had...otherwise he wouldn'ta been leading a pagan worship service. He had no idea that God has a Son. He only knew there was a 4th Being in the furnace who was much more than a man, and it evidently was this Being who had protected the 3 Jews.

As DC said, "the Son of God" is an over-interpretation, most likely based upon the hindsight of the KJV translators. While most of us have heard of God our whole lives, Neb was brought up with the pantheon of Babylonian gods such as Bel(Baal,"lord") and Nergal(Mars) His first introduction to God was prolly when Daniel told him the content of the dream he'd forgotten, as well as its interpretation. Now, while he greatly honored Daniel, he soon forgot about his God in the daily hubbub of running a vast empire.

But it's very unlikely that Neb had that much knowledge of God. After all, he'd conquered His people, and, just as the Assyrian kings before him, didn't think too highly of a god that couldn't protect his own people from conquest.

Again, I very seriously doubt that Neb had enough knowledge of Jesus to have specifically referred to Him.

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by DesiderioDomini:
unreal!!!

Guys, COME ON!!!

These KJVO are constantly REJECTING clear scripture JUST TO DEFEND KJVO! Benny Hinn did that once, claiming that God did not inspire "The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord"

Its self-contradictory. Its dishonest. You dont need a doctorate to see it, either.

This is wny no one using their own brain takes KJVOsim seriously. Its just amazing!

There are no such KJVoism those are your Words maybe your not sure who God really is! Say what you want and you hear what you want but what is the Spirit telling you heart? KJB, KJB ,KJB,KJB!

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by robycop3:
Eliyahu:Therefore it is obvious without any doubt that King was talking about the Most High God, God of Israel, God of Daniel's friends, neither the gods, nor a god.

I agree that indeed Neb WAS talking about the real God, but he didn't suddenly just acquire the knowledge about Him that the righteous Jews had...otherwise he wouldn'ta been leading a pagan worship service. He had no idea that God has a Son. He only knew there was a 4th Being in the furnace who was much more than a man, and it evidently was this Being who had protected the 3 Jews.

As DC said, "the Son of God" is an over-interpretation, most likely based upon the hindsight of the KJV translators. While most of us have heard of God our whole lives, Neb was brought up with the pantheon of Babylonian gods such as Bel(Baal,"lord") and Nergal(Mars) His first introduction to God was prolly when Daniel told him the content of the dream he'd forgotten, as well as its interpretation. Now, while he greatly honored Daniel, he soon forgot about his God in the daily hubbub of running a vast empire.

But it's very unlikely that Neb had that much knowledge of God. After all, he'd conquered His people, and, just as the Assyrian kings before him, didn't think too highly of a god that couldn't protect his own people from conquest.

Again, I very seriously doubt that Neb had enough knowledge of Jesus to have specifically referred to Him.

Why are you speaking for the King Nebuchadnezzar, were you there? The whole world Knew the God of Abraham, Jacob and Issac they just didn't Glorify Him As God! Romans 1,2,

 

[Ransom]

william s. correa wrote:

There are no such KJVoism those are your Words maybe your not sure who God really is! Say what you want and you hear what you want but what is the Spirit telling you heart? KJB, KJB ,KJB,KJB!

Gail Riplinger says the inability to speak is the judgment of God for the way you treat his Word.

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by TCassidy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Askjo:
You contradicted yourself. You believe that this verse 25 refers to a son of gods because Jesus is a son of godS.

Askjo, I know you are not terribly bright so I will try to make this as simple as possible so even you can understand it. I believe verse 25 says "a son of the gods" because that is the only way the Aramaic can be legitimately translated. I believe the person in the furnace was, in fact, the Lord Jesus Christ in His pre-incarnate form, but that is not what Nebuchadnezzar said. He said he saw one who was like unto "a son of the gods." Then in verse 28 he explains himself by saying it was an "angel" which he saw.

This is very obvious to show that you prefer MVs over the KJV because most MVs said, "a son of godS" instead of the Son of God in the KJV on this verse 25.

Once again you tell a terrible lie! I prefer the KJV over any modern version. But I am also honest enough to admit that, at times, the KJV translators engaged in interpretation instead of translation. I agree that the person in the furnace was the Son of God but to translate the Aramaic as "the Son of God" is to over translate the Aramaic term and interject their interpretation into the English text. When the translators of the modern versions do that you are the first to cry "foul!" but when the KJV translators do it you defend them even when it is obvious that it was interpretation rather than translation. </font>[/QUOTE]So you are saying that we do not have (Today)an errorless, infallible, Inspired,Word of God in the AV 1611? Is that what I'm hearing you say? That we do not have the Word of God Today in the KJB? not contains or has some here and there: But IS with out a Question the Word of God! in the KJB? What Bible then? The Gospel according to TCassidy? Who Wrote it? Nebuccannezzar? What Would be the text? and in What Language? Aramaic? Maybe Geek! huh? You Have a talent with words, But the Scriptures are God's Words given to us By Him: Daniel planted a Mustard seed in the King and later grew into a great big tree when the King got saved! There is No False doctorines extracted from Daniel #3 in the KJB but ther are sure Questionable ommissions and additions that are Not Gods Word in some of the MV's! They are man's!

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by Ransom:
william s. correa wrote:

There are no such KJVoism those are your Words maybe your not sure who God really is! Say what you want and you hear what you want but what is the Spirit telling you heart? KJB, KJB ,KJB,KJB!

Gail Riplinger says the inability to speak is the judgment of God for the way you treat his Word.

Well Shes only Human and makes mistakes! Gods Word dosen't!

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by Diggin in da Word:
The fact that Nebuchadnezzar said 'the son of gods' does not sound like the correct interpretation to me either.

King Nebuchadnezzar knew indeed of Daniel's God. The decree that all should bow to the image was to make him a god, Shadrach, Meschach and Abednego let the king know that they would not bow. That they were loyal to the one true God, Elohim.

As said earlier, why would Nebuchadnezzar recognize the being in the fire as being a son of gods as if it were some earthen god protecting them and then call them out of the fire by saying 'servants of the Most High God?'

Makes no sense to say it is a son of gods and then recognize that their God was Most High.

Get real.

Amen and Amen

 

[standingfirminChrist]

it makes not sense for Nebuchadnezzar to see what appears to be a son of gods with the young men yet tell them that it was the most High God that delivered them. He could very will have said our gods decided not to fry you. Our gods had one of their own in the fire with you. But he did not. He say one like unto the Son of God walking in the midst of the flames.

And yes, He would certainly have known of the Lord God as stories of His delivering hand would have been handed down through history.

Also Romans does tell us that men knew of God but did not like to retain Him in their knowledge.

It has to be very agonizing to know that no matter how much one tries to deny and forget Almighty God, He is there.

Oh the fear that must have crept in Nebuchadnezzar's mind and heart when he saw that fourth man walking!

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by DesiderioDomini:
TCassidy prefers MVs over the KJV?

Wow, some people just love saying asinine things. Askjo is racking them up!

You cannot have Two masters!

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
it makes not sense for Nebuchadnezzar to see what appears to be a son of gods with the young men yet tell them that it was the most High God that delivered them. He could very will have said our gods decided not to fry you. Our gods had one of their own in the fire with you. But he did not. He say one like unto the Son of God walking in the midst of the flames.

And yes, He would certainly have known of the Lord God as stories of His delivering hand would have been handed down through history.

Also Romans does tell us that men knew of God but did not like to retain Him in their knowledge.

It has to be very agonizing to know that no matter how much one tries to deny and forget Almighty God, He is there.

Oh the fear that must have crept in Nebuchadnezzar's mind and heart when he saw that fourth man walking!

Amen Brother He is Still there in the Fire for you and For Me!

 

[TCassidy]

Originally posted by william s. correa:
So you are saying that we do not have (Today)an errorless, infallible, Inspired,Word of God in the AV 1611?

No, William, I did not say that.

Is that what I'm hearing you say?

No, William, I did not say that. If you are hearing voices saying that perhaps you should consult a mental health professional.

That we do not have the Word of God Today in the KJB?

No, William, I did not say the KJV is not the word of God. I believe it is.

not contains or has some here and there: But IS with out a Question the Word of God!

Yes, William, the KJV is the word of God.

in the KJB?

Yes, William, the KJV is the word of God.

What Bible then?

I teach and preach only from the KJV, William, and have done so for well over 30 years.

The Gospel according to TCassidy?

No, William. The Gospel according to the word of God.

Who Wrote it?

God inspired it and men wrote the words down as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Nebuccannezzar?

No, William, Nebuchadnezzar did not write the bible.

What Would be the text?

The text of what? You are not making a whole lot of sense.

and in What Language?

The Old Testament was inspired primarily in Hebrew with portions of Ezra and Daniel having been given in Aramaic. The New Testament was given by God in Greek.

Aramaic?

Yes, William, portions of Ezra and Daniel were given by inspiration of God in Aramaic.

Maybe Geek!

No, William, you did not inspire any of the bible.

huh?

William, if you expect to communicate intelligently you will have to learn to speak and write in complete sentences.

You Have a talent with words, But the Scriptures are God's Words given to us By Him:

Yes, William, I know.

Daniel planted a Mustard seed in the King and later grew into a great big tree when the King got saved!

I don't recall ever saying anything different, William. Are you sure you are up to following the discussion?

There is No False doctorines extracted from Daniel #3 in the KJB but ther are sure Questionable ommissions and additions that are Not Gods Word in some of the MV's! They are man's!

Please list the false doctrines found in the modern versions of Daniel chapter 3. Thank you.

 

[william s. correa]

Originally posted by TCassidy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by william s. correa:
So you are saying that we do not have (Today)an errorless, infallible, Inspired,Word of God in the AV 1611?

No, William, I did not say that.

Is that what I'm hearing you say?

No, William, I did not say that. If you are hearing voices saying that perhaps you should consult a mental health professional.

That we do not have the Word of God Today in the KJB?

No, William, I did not say the KJV is not the word of God. I believe it is.

not contains or has some here and there: But IS with out a Question the Word of God!

Yes, William, the KJV is the word of God.

in the KJB?

Yes, William, the KJV is the word of God.

What Bible then?

I teach and preach only from the KJV, William, and have done so for well over 30 years.

The Gospel according to TCassidy?

No, William. The Gospel according to the word of God.

Who Wrote it?

God inspired it and men wrote the words down as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

Nebuccannezzar?

No, William, Nebuchadnezzar did not write the bible.

What Would be the text?

The text of what? You are not making a whole lot of sense.

and in What Language?

The Old Testament was inspired primarily in Hebrew with portions of Ezra and Daniel having been given in Aramaic. The New Testament was given by God in Greek.

Aramaic?

Yes, William, portions of Ezra and Daniel were given by inspiration of God in Aramaic.

Maybe Geek!

No, William, you did not inspire any of the bible.

huh?

William, if you expect to communicate intelligently you will have to learn to speak and write in complete sentences.

You Have a talent with words, But the Scriptures are God's Words given to us By Him:

Yes, William, I know.

Daniel planted a Mustard seed in the King and later grew into a great big tree when the King got saved!

I don't recall ever saying anything different, William. Are you sure you are up to following the discussion?

There is No False doctorines extracted from Daniel #3 in the KJB but ther are sure Questionable ommissions and additions that are Not Gods Word in some of the MV's! They are man's!

Please list the false doctrines found in the modern versions of Daniel chapter 3. Thank you. </font>[/QUOTE]Amen Then Why are you reading the NASB and Defending idiot oops it? A Double minded man is unstable in all his ways! The False Doctorines are in the MV's not the Word of God that's whom I'm reffering to. The word of God needs not to be defendend! You Could instruct with that talent not destruct, I'm sure you are a Great teacher but how many teachers teach out of Diffrent texts than the pupils. Paul said to be as he was and not learn from any other Gospel (Galatos: Whole book) Cipriano De Valera 1800's

 

[TCassidy]

Originally posted by william s. correa:
Then Why are you reading the NASB and Defending idiot oops it?

I am not reading the NASB. And I have no idea what "idiot oops it" means. You are being incoherent again.

A Double minded man is unstable in all his ways!

Yes, you are! You cannot serve Christ and Satan at the same time! Nor can you serve Christ and Ruckman at the same time.

The False Doctorines are in the MV's not the Word of God that's whom I'm reffering to.

I already asked you to post the false doctrines found in the modern versions of Daniel chapter 3, but so far you have not backed up your false claim.

The word of God needs not to be defendend!

The word of God can take care of itself. That is why I don't take your vicious attacks against the word of God seriously.

You Could instruct with that talent not destruct, I'm sure you are a Great teacher but how many teachers teach out of Diffrent texts than the pupils.

I am a gifted teacher but a teacher is only as good as his willingness to tell the truth. And I teach English bible from the KJV, Hebrew from the Ben Chayyim Hebrew text and Greek from the Byzantine text. Just as God intended.

Paul said to be as he was and not learn from any other Gospel (Galatos: Whole book) Cipriano De Valera 1800's

I know what Paul said and what he meant. However, it appears that you don't.

 

[Eliyahu]

Dr. Cassidy,
Thanks for your post. You made a good point. Actually my study has not reached that portion of OT, Daniel yet. When Roby pointed out Elah I checked with Blueletterbible.com and thought it was Elah. You are right in saying Elahhin for Dan 3:25.

Here is my study so far, since then.
1. Aramaic starts from 2:4 till 7:28 in Daniel.
I refer to the Hebrew MT by Ben Chayyim.
2. Mostly in Ezra and in Daniel Elah(singular) has been used for indicating God of Israel. I think this counts more than 50 times
Also, this same Elah was used for the pagan god too as in Dan 4:8, and any god as in Dan 6:8,13.

3. Elahin was used for indicating pagan gods mostly. 5:4, 5:11,23

4. However, there are some exceptions for the plural Elahin
Dan 2:47 Your God is a God of gods:
This is the confession by King Nebychadnezzar after he fell upon his face and worshipped Daniel ( King Worshipped Daniel !!). Here your God is Elah-ch-on. I believe this is a plural God(Elohim) for plural your. For the singular form is shown here:
Dan 6:20 Elahach -Thy God
Another example of the same usage is found in Ezra 7:17
Elah-chom - Your God ( singular God for plural your)
Therefore we can say that it was not the first time for King Nebu used the plural Elahin for indicating the God of Shadrach and Daniel.
I am not sure whether 3:28, 29 used for God of Shadrach (Elah-hon) are plural while 3:26 used singular Elah clearly. I am checking with an Aramaic specialist on this issue, but I think v 28 and v29 used them as plural as well.( I am not sure whether it should be Elah-ei-chon or Elah-ei-hin for plural)

King Nebu must have learned about God of Israel quite a lot from Daniel. Even when he used the Elahin, he meant the God of Israel by saying holy gods, Elahin, which is plural;
Daniel
4: 5 (English 4:8) Beltsatsar, according to the name of my god, in whom is the spirit of holy gods.
4:6 (English 4:9) the spirit of holy gods
5:11 (English 5:11) the spirit of holy gods, like the wisdom of gods…

If we look at 3:28, 29, King Nebu knew well about God of Shadrach and we can understand that he meant the God of Israel in 3:25, not the pagan gods.
It could have been that King Nebu often used plural Elahin for deity of Israel.

Even before I thought about this much grammatical matters, I could understand that King Nebu knew the difference between pagan gods and God of Israel and he meant the God of Israel in 3:25. He didn’t think his own god or any other gods send his son. King Nebu was amazed at the scene of Shadrach and his friends and changed his mind. He admitted the Supremacy of God of Shadrach over any other gods.
Moreover any Son having many fathers doesn’t make sense.
In this aspect I trust the expertise of some of the KJV translators in Chaldean language and if it had not been for KJV, most people would have regarded verse 25 as meaning Son of gods instead of Son of God.

[ May 09, 2006, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Eliyahu ]

 

[TCassidy]

Except none of your examples uses the plural "Elahin." All of them use the singular "Elah" with plural pronouns. My statement stands. Nowhere in the bible (or any other Aramaic literature) is "Elahin" ever used to mean the One True God.

 

[Eliyahu]

What is the pronominal surfix in Elah-chon?
Chon? or Ch-on in 2:47 ?

 

[DesiderioDomini]

Dr. Cass,

Do you get the impression that we are discussing with someone under some kind of influence? I'm not trying to insult anyone, actually, I think it would be an insult to believe these posts come from his right mind. This has nothing to do with KJVO.

William, I am asking honestly, are you on something? I dont mean early Acts on something, I think you know what I mean.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

william,

ya must be doing something right, Bro. Elst the devil would not be attacking you so much.

Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. {falsely: Gr. lying} Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Keep up the good work!