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Legislating the 4th Commandment
- Thread starter BobRyan
- Start date
Sopranette
New Member
Jesus also said to the adulteress,"Go, and sin no more.", although there was a crowd gathered around her getting ready to hand out some good ol' OT justice.larryjf said:
love,
sopranette
Thesis:
"enforcing "all" OT laws is not being considered here...just the moral laws which are still in effect. The ceremonial laws have been fulfilled in Christ and are no longer required as they were a shadow of the truth found in Him."
GE
Does that then mean the 'ceremonial' laws were not 'moral'? They were more 'moral' than the 'moral Laws' since they had to do with forgiveness of sin. Because they showed forth Christ, that, made them 'moral' above all laws of conduct merely.
Believing in Christ a person still confesses the 'moralness' of every OT 'ceremonial' law, for believing in Christ, one confirms the truthfulness of the type fulfilled in the Antitype - without exception. Christ fulfilled all OT Law in that He is the Fullness and Fulfilment of every word of Promise and Law of God. No single 'ceremonial' law has ever been repealed only because Christ repeated no single one or them, but took their place, all combined, and took them all up in the Sacrifice and Offering of Himself: an Atonement for sins and Conqueror of death, Author and Finisher of both Life and Faith.
"enforcing "all" OT laws is not being considered here...just the moral laws which are still in effect. The ceremonial laws have been fulfilled in Christ and are no longer required as they were a shadow of the truth found in Him."
GE
Does that then mean the 'ceremonial' laws were not 'moral'? They were more 'moral' than the 'moral Laws' since they had to do with forgiveness of sin. Because they showed forth Christ, that, made them 'moral' above all laws of conduct merely.
Believing in Christ a person still confesses the 'moralness' of every OT 'ceremonial' law, for believing in Christ, one confirms the truthfulness of the type fulfilled in the Antitype - without exception. Christ fulfilled all OT Law in that He is the Fullness and Fulfilment of every word of Promise and Law of God. No single 'ceremonial' law has ever been repealed only because Christ repeated no single one or them, but took their place, all combined, and took them all up in the Sacrifice and Offering of Himself: an Atonement for sins and Conqueror of death, Author and Finisher of both Life and Faith.
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Because that is the Church's job.Sopranette said:
The State has a different role...
Rom 13:4
for he [governing authority] is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer.
There is a distinction between the moral laws of God, which are eternal...and the ceremonial laws of God which are not.Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
God's moral laws were in effect even before the fall, and will be in effect in Heaven as well, the ceremonial laws were not in effect before the fall.
The ceremonial laws are not eternal because they do not reflect God's moral character as the moral laws do. The ceremonial laws were never meant to be an end in themselves, but to point to Christ.
The moral laws have been in effect, even before the creation of man.
"So, you would have stood with the Pharisees against Jesus in John 8?"
GE
This really is a transgression of quite a few OT Laws, like You shall not lie; make a false acusation, not kill, even!
GE
This really is a transgression of quite a few OT Laws, like You shall not lie; make a false acusation, not kill, even!
Sopranette
New Member
But if God is not wrathful, as in the case of the adulteress, why should the courts be more so? Shouldn't our courts be at least as merciful as He is?larryjf said:
love,
Sopranette
You see where we all end up, when we don't use Christ, but the OT Law for our Law? Are we Jews? Such judgmental remarks (as above, post 48) cannot be made if we have Jesus Christ for our Law. As simple as that!
I could not have been any more clear on this topic.rbell said:
Yes, our system is wrong because it rejects God's counsel.
Perhaps part of the problem is that our system seeks to lessen the seriousness of these sins. God tells us that these sins are so severe that they deserve death...and we dare to tell Him that He is wrong.
Tragic.
Laryjf,
"God's moral laws were in effect even before the fall, and will be in effect in Heaven as well, the ceremonial laws were not in effect before the fall."
GE
And for how long was that maybe? Indeed, the first Law of God's LOVE indeed, we see in effect and executed by GOD, immediately "after the fall", which in the chronological terms of the Law of sin: "Thou shalt surely die", was there and then without delay, as Grace had come even before the Law or its transgression had come. (Back to my thread, Days of Genesis -- or what was it I called it again?)
"God's moral laws were in effect even before the fall, and will be in effect in Heaven as well, the ceremonial laws were not in effect before the fall."
GE
And for how long was that maybe? Indeed, the first Law of God's LOVE indeed, we see in effect and executed by GOD, immediately "after the fall", which in the chronological terms of the Law of sin: "Thou shalt surely die", was there and then without delay, as Grace had come even before the Law or its transgression had come. (Back to my thread, Days of Genesis -- or what was it I called it again?)
We see God's Grace in God's 'ceremonial' Law applied and acted at once. God never made a distinction, and Christ crucified was the ultimate Proof of God's viewpoint of 'ceremonial' and 'moral'.
Sopranette
New Member
So, at what point does this become completely absurd. Should we start blood sacrifies again? Kosher laws? Should we just throw out the NT entirely, since OT laws are apparently all we need to keep our society in check.
love,
Sopranette
love,
Sopranette
Where am i wrong on Jn 8?rbell said:
Are you suggesting that the Pharisees were the State that governed Israel?
Are you suggesting that the Church bears the sword and not the State?
Jesus doesn't disagree with me, i also would not allow the Church to execute anybody. Did Jesus ever stop the Roman government from executing?...no.
Why bring up slavery? It's not one of God's moral commands. His moral commands are summed up in the 10 commandments.
Paul saying "where sin abounded Grace much more abounded" is speaking from the human point of view. In Divine principle Grace is always first ... and last.