Let's suppose Calvinism is true...then why don't all Christians believe it?

[Amy.G]

You see Calvinist take ALL of the Bible into account, not just a few verses that speak of Gods offer.

Well, that depends on how you define "ALL" doesn't it?

According to the Calvinist, all doesn't always mean "all". So, therefore I conclude, based on the Calvinists definition of "all", that they do not really take all of the Bible into account. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Winman]

Well, that depends on how you define "ALL" doesn't it?

According to the Calvinist, all doesn't always mean "all". So, therefore I conclude, based on the Calvinists definition of "all", that they do not really take all of the Bible into account. :smilewinkgrin:

LOL Amy, you trapped them with their own words. :laugh:

 

[Jarthur001]

Hogwash. Anyone who is not brainwashed by these false doctrines can easily see Calvinism perverts the true meaning of many, many scriptures.

Denying it doesn't change the truth.

You have YET to give a verse that has not been addressed. While others have been asked for you to answer...STILL NOTHING

Oh well.

 

[olegig]

Well, that depends on how you define "ALL" doesn't it?

According to the Calvinist, all doesn't always mean "all". So, therefore I conclude, based on the Calvinists definition of "all", that they do not really take all of the Bible into account. :smilewinkgrin:

I am beginning to think Bill Clinton was a closet Calvinist.:tonofbricks:
-------------
to anyone...........
If you were in charge of a large public swimming pool what would you do in this instance?

Someone is crying for help, so the lifeguard jumps in and saves him.
Ok, great, he did his job. but,,,,,,,,,

Someone is already passed out on the bottom of the pool with no ability to call out; the life guard sees him, but does nothing because that person did not call out for help.

Do you support the lifeguard's decision?
If the person drowns, is the lifeguard responsible for the death?

 

[Theopolis]

Well, that depends on how you define "ALL" doesn't it?

According to the Calvinist, all doesn't always mean "all". So, therefore I conclude, based on the Calvinists definition of "all", that they do not really take all of the Bible into account. :smilewinkgrin:

you gotta love that comment

 

[Amy.G]

you gotta love that comment

Thank yoooo.

Thank you very much. :laugh:

I'll be here all week.

 

[Skandelon]

Well, that depends on how you define "ALL" doesn't it?

According to the Calvinist, all doesn't always mean "all". So, therefore I conclude, based on the Calvinists definition of "all", that they do not really take all of the Bible into account. :smilewinkgrin:

Amy, as a former Calvinist I have to say this is a misrepresentation. To Calvinists "all" means, "of every kind" (both Jew and Gentiles). So, that means Calvinists believe all verses "of every kind" (both Old and New Testament) that they think supports Calvinism, the rest are not elected to be believed. Don't you know by now that Calvinism is always a little more complex than you think, and every Calvinist will define it a bit differently and then accuse you of not really understand them? :laugh:

 

[OldRegular]

So, your vote is for #1? You are better than us non-Calvinist is some way because you didn't "want to cling to the idea that you had to complete the work of God," right? What is it that made you not make this "mistake" while the rest of us did?

That is a very appropriate question Sk. The answer is that I probably hold to a higher view of the Word of God as it relates to Salvation than whoever "the rest of us" does. I have always believed that Salvation is a supernatural act of GOD even before I understood the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace which Scripture clearly teaches. Some believers because of their stubbornness simply refuse to accept that truth. You admittedly at one time believed that Doctrine until you fell from Grace. Fortunately GOD is very patient with HIS wayward children.

 

[Amy.G]

That is a very appropriate question Sk. The answer is that I probably hold to a higher view of the Word of God as it relates to Salvation than whoever "the rest of us" does.

You do not hold to a higher view of God than I do even though I am not a Cavinist. That is insulting.

I have always believed that Salvation is a supernatural act of GOD even before I understood the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace which Scripture clearly teaches.

Of course salvation is supernatural. Who on this board believes otherwise?

Some believers because of their stubbornness simply refuse to accept that truth.

Not true. Again, who on this board thinks salvation is NOT a supernatural gift from God?

You admittedly at one time believed that Doctrine until you fell from Grace. Fortunately GOD is very patient with HIS wayward children.

So everyone who doesn't believe in the Doctrines of Grace or Calvinism is a wayward child who has fallen from grace?


A wayward child is one who is living in sin and who will be chastised by God in order to bring him back into fellowship. To fall from grace means that one has rejected the grace of God and relies on his own works for salvation.
Neither of which describes the person who doesn't accept all of the TULIP petals.

 

[Skandelon]

That is a very appropriate question Sk. The answer is that I probably hold to a higher view of the Word of God as it relates to Salvation than whoever "the rest of us" does. I have always believed that Salvation is a supernatural act of GOD even before I understood the Doctrine of Sovereign Grace which Scripture clearly teaches. Some believers because of their stubbornness simply refuse to accept that truth. You admittedly at one time believed that Doctrine until you fell from Grace. Fortunately GOD is very patient with HIS wayward children.

So, by this testimony you say you have a "higher view of God's word." But why? Is it because you are inherently better than me or some other non-Calvinists or did God give you something that he didn't give us? Please explain what it is that gave you this "higher view," and made you less "stubborn." Is it you or God?

If its you, then where did you get this better quality? And why can't you BOAST about that?

If its God, then why didn't he grant it to us all?

 

[OldRegular]

SKandelon and Amy

My response to SK earlier question was an attempt to put a humorous aspect to a serious question. It is perhaps best forgotten.

 

[Skandelon]

SKandelon and Amy

My response to SK earlier question was an attempt to put a humorous aspect to a serious question. It is perhaps best forgotten.

I wonder why Calvinists refuse to address this serious question. There must be a reason that you are Calvinistic and other believers are not. The ultimate cause for your being Calvinistic has to be either yourself or God, right? Why not give a straight answer to this question?

ANYONE?

 

[OldRegular]

I wonder why Calvinists refuse to address this serious question. There must be a reason that you are Calvinistic and other believers are not. The ultimate cause for your being Calvinistic has to be either yourself or God, right? Why not give a straight answer to this question?

ANYONE?

I have said on this Forum repeatedly that I am not a Calvinist since he advocated certain doctrines that I believe are not in accord with Scripture.

However I believe that Calvin was correct in his doctrine of Salvation. I call this doctrine the Sovereign Grace of God in Salvation. I believe this doctrine is correct because Scripture clearly teaches this truth. There is not one verse of Scripture that I am aware of used to support the doctrine of Sovereign Grace in Salvation that conflicts with Scripture used to support the doctrine of Freewillism. Those who hold to the doctrine of Freewillism must ignore certain passages of Scripture that clearly teach what you like to call Calviniam.

I believe that before the foundation of the world God the Father chose certain persons out of the mass of humanity to Salvation [Ephesians 1:3-7] and gave these elect to his Son.[John 6:37; John 17]

I believe that God the Son, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead, laid aside His Glory made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.[Philippians 2:7] God the Son for a time laid aside His Glory, but His Deity, His Holiness, He could not lay aside and yet for some 33 years Holy God lived among sinful man. In due time HE would offer Himself up and die on the cross to pay the penalty for the sins of those whom the Father has chosen to salvation and given to HIM so that none are lost.

I believe that God the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Triune Godhead, applies the cross work of the Jesus Christ to those chosen by God the Father before the foundation of the world. HE regenerates and effectually calls those whom God the Father has chosen so that none are lost [John 3:3-8; John 6: 37, 44; Ephesians 2:1-10].

There was a time Skandelon when you supposedly believed the true Biblical Doctrine of Sovereign Grace. You have my sympathy!

 

[Skandelon]

I have said on this Forum repeatedly that I am not a Calvinist since he advocated certain doctrines that I believe are not in accord with Scripture.

However I believe that Calvin was correct in his doctrine of Salvation. I call this doctrine the Sovereign Grace of God in Salvation. I believe this doctrine is correct because Scripture clearly teaches this truth. There is not one verse of Scripture that I am aware of used to support the doctrine of Sovereign Grace in Salvation that conflicts with Scripture used to support the doctrine of Freewillism. Those who hold to the doctrine of Freewillism must ignore certain passages of Scripture that clearly teach what you like to call Calviniam.

I believe that before the foundation of the world God the Father chose certain persons out of the mass of humanity to Salvation [Ephesians 1:3-7] and gave these elect to his Son.[John 6:37; John 17]

I believe that God the Son, the Second Person of the Triune Godhead, laid aside His Glory made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.[Philippians 2:7] God the Son for a time laid aside His Glory, but His Deity, His Holiness, He could not lay aside and yet for some 33 years Holy God lived among sinful man. In due time HE would offer Himself up and die on the cross to pay the penalty for the sins of those whom the Father has chosen to salvation and given to HIM so that none are lost.

I believe that God the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Triune Godhead, applies the cross work of the Jesus Christ to those chosen by God the Father before the foundation of the world. HE regenerates and effectually calls those whom God the Father has chosen so that none are lost [John 3:3-8; John 6: 37, 44; Ephesians 2:1-10].

There was a time Skandelon when you supposedly believed the true Biblical Doctrine of Sovereign Grace. You have my sympathy!

I'm using the term "Calvinist" in a general sense. Its not mean to fully represent you anymore so than the term "Arminian" represents me. Now, can you answer the question as one who believes YOUR DOCTRINES however you would like to "label" them? Assuming your views are correct and mine are not, why do you believe them and I don't? What caused you to believe them and me not to believe them? Is it God or you?

 

[OldRegular]

I'm using the term "Calvinist" in a general sense. Its not mean to fully represent you anymore so than the term "Arminian" represents me. Now, can you answer the question as one who believes YOUR DOCTRINES however you would like to "label" them? Assuming your views are correct and mine are not, why do you believe them and I don't? What caused you to believe them and me not to believe them? Is it God or you?

Based on the following Scripture I would say that it is GOD alone!

John 14:26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1John 2:27. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

2 Peter 1:20. Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

AMEN! and PRAISE THE LORD GOD from whom all blessings flow! HE chose me, why I do not know, but I will praise HIM throughout eternity!

 

[Amy.G]

Originally Posted by Skandelon
I'm using the term "Calvinist" in a general sense. Its not mean to fully represent you anymore so than the term "Arminian" represents me. Now, can you answer the question as one who believes YOUR DOCTRINES however you would like to "label" them? Assuming your views are correct and mine are not, why do you believe them and I don't? What caused you to believe them and me not to believe them? Is it God or you?

Old Regular: Based on the following Scripture I would say that it is GOD alone!

So, you are saying that you believe in the Doctrines of Grace or Calvinism because God chose you?

Since I don't believe in these doctrines, are you saying that God did not choose me?

 

[OldRegular]

So, you are saying that you believe in the Doctrines of Grace or Calvinism because God chose you?

Since I don't believe in these doctrines, are you saying that God did not choose me?

Amy

You need to go back and read again. That is not what I said at all. Please note the question that Scandelon asked.

 

[Amy.G]

Amy

You need to go back and read again. That is not what I said at all. Please note the question that Scandelon asked.

I apologize.
I did not read carefully.


After reading your answer to Skan again, you did say that the reason you believe in the Doctrines of Grace is because God showed you the truth. Correct?

So, the question would be, why did God show you the truth, but not me or Skan?

 

[Skandelon]

So, the question would be, why did God show you the truth, but not me or Skan?

:thumbsup: Exactly?

Why to you suppose God wouldn't grant for all his chosen children to accept these "truths?" And, secondly, why do you attempt to convince us of something only God can grant? While the gospel is the appointed means for an elect man to come to faith and you are commanded to preach it, there is no such appointed means or command for a Calvinist to attempt to convert all believers to Calvinism, so what's the point coming to places like this and discussing it with us?

 

[OldRegular]

:thumbsup: Exactly?

Why to you suppose God wouldn't grant for all his chosen children to accept these "truths?" And, secondly, why do you attempt to convince us of something only God can grant? While the gospel is the appointed means for an elect man to come to faith and you are commanded to preach it, there is no such appointed means or command for a Calvinist to attempt to convert all believers to Calvinism, so what's the point coming to places like this and discussing it with us?

As I recall Scandelon you started a discussion on another thread as to why you left "Calvinism" to adopt "Freewillism". Was not that an attempt to convert people to your way of thinking?

I am not trying to convince you of anything. I have said on this Forum more than once that no one could have convinced me of the Doctrine of Election and Sovereign Grace. GOD working through Scripture did. However, I will defend what I believe and what Scripture teaches.

As for why not you. Simply read the history of the Israelites in Old Testament. Perhaps that will help you understand.