Liberty - not worth supporting

[Shoostie]

Students and staff are not the same thing you realize this right? Did he lie about being there?

He said it wasn't him in a picture, or the the picture was photoshopped, then more pictures turned up showing him there, and a total of five family members were at the club that night. So, he did lie about being there.

Students over 21 living off campus aren't the same thing as students living on campus, or students who are under 21. I don't know his personal teaching on drinking, but when adult students living off campus aren't allowed to drink, it is wrong for him to drink.

Falwell Jr. strikes me as a man who has grown arrogant and careless.

 

[Reynolds]

Students and staff are not the same thing you realize this right? Did he lie about being there?

If it's fine for staff to drink, it's fine for students to drink.

 

[Reynolds]

Again is there anything inherently wrong/evil/sinful about going to a nightclub?

Do you see anything wrong with a Christian at a night club drinking?
Maybe in my backslidden days I missed something, but from what I saw, EVERYTHING that goes on at night clubs is sin. Drinking, dancing, shooting pool, dancing some more, and hooking up.

 

[Reformed1689]

Do you see anything wrong with a Christian at a night club drinking?
Maybe in my backslidden days I missed something, but from what I saw, EVERYTHING that goes on at night clubs is sin. Drinking, dancing, shooting pool, dancing some more, and hooking up.

Drinking is not a sin. Drunkeness is. Dancing is not a sin. Shooting pool is not a sin. I doubt hooking up happens in public but if it does, yes that would be a sin.

 

[Reynolds]

Drinking is not a sin. Drunkeness is. Dancing is not a sin. Shooting pool is not a sin. I doubt hooking up happens in public but if it does, yes that would be a sin.

If drinking is not a sin why does Liberty prohibit it?
Hooking up is a process that starts on the dance floor and finishes at the hotel.
What business does a Christian have in a night club? Is it good for their testimony? It actually earns them the label hypocrite.

 

[Reformed1689]

If drinking is not a sin why does Liberty prohibit it?

First, they only prohibit it for students and since most students would be drinking against the law it makes sense. But it's not a sin, nor will you find Scripture that says it is, especially since Christ drank alcohol.

Hooking up is a process that starts on the dance floor and finishes at the hotel.

Again, that is conflating two things together. Are you really suggesting dancing always leads to hooking up? Absurd.

What business does a Christian have in a night club? Is it good for their testimony? It actually earns them the label hypocrite.

I'm not condoning it or forbiding it. I asked what is inherently wrong/evil about it. The answer is nothing.

 

[Reynolds]

First, they only prohibit it for students and since most students would be drinking against the law it makes sense. But it's not a sin, nor will you find Scripture that says it is, especially since Christ drank alcohol.


Again, that is conflating two things together. Are you really suggesting dancing always leads to hooking up? Absurd.


I'm not condoning it or forbiding it. I asked what is inherently wrong/evil about it. The answer is nothing.

The distinction between staff and students is absurd. 21 and over would be logical.
Nothing good happens on the night club dance floor.

Jesus drank alcohol? Maybe He did. Maybe he Didn't. I don't think you can prove He did, but you stated it as fact. No, I can't prove He didn't.

 

[Reformed1689]

Jesus drank alcohol? Maybe He did. Maybe he Didn't. I don't think you can prove He did, but you stated it as fact. No, I can't prove He didn't.

I stated it as fact because it is a fact.

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is justified by all her children.”

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Lk 7:33–35.

 

[Shoostie]

First, they only prohibit it for students and since most students would be drinking against the law it makes sense. But it's not a sin, nor will you find Scripture that says it is, especially since Christ drank alcohol.

I agree that drinking isn't a sin. But, many Baptists believe drinking to be a sin, and Falwell is well aware of that, and appearances. And, Liberty prohibits off-campus adults from drinking. Why do they prohibit off-campus adults from drinking? If they can't drink because some students are under-age, then why does Falwell get to drink?

There's drinking, and then there's going to a den of debauchery like the night club Falwell went to.

And, don't forget Falwell's lie about not being there. He knew he did wrong, so he tried to cover up with another wrong.

 

[Jerome]

Here is the...author of the article...

BRANDON AMBROSINO​

Really?

this Brandon Ambrosino? :

Will & Grace was a formative part of writer Brandon Ambrosino's journey discovering his sexual identity

[CAUTION: disturbing images and text in full article]

The situation I found myself in was growing up in religious heterosexual spaces, and the strategy was to not allow those spaces to become too hallowed. I couldn't destroy those spaces – nobody can – but I can and did undercut them

My obsession with Will & Grace followed me to Liberty University, the conservative Christian college founded by the late Rev. Falwell, a man who was pivotal in marrying conservative American politics with Evangelical Christianity.

Everyone is always interested to know how I ended up the school. Oldest story in the book: Boy follows girl to Christian college. Boy and girl decide to see other boys

At Liberty, I found a way of bringing Will & Grace into most of my conversations, especially in-class ones. One of my English teachers had a wardrobe every bit as stylish as Karen Walker's so I immediately knew I could trust her.

I asked if I could write my midterm essay on Will & Grace. "I don't have a problem with that," she said...."think about the title of the show: Will and Grace – those are very important concepts to the Christian faith."

[this is likely Dr. Karen Swallow-Prior]

Sounds like Brandon has an agenda [bolded above]

 

[Reformed1689]

And, don't forget Falwell's lie about not being there. He knew he did wrong, so he tried to cover up with another wrong.

I already agreed with you this is wrong. Not sure why you bring that up again.

 

[MartyF]

99.9% of the time, YES!

Reynolds is right!

You can read it in 2nd Addendums 14:2

Nightclubs are evil.

 

[MartyF]

There's drinking, and then there's going to a den of debauchery like the night club Falwell went to.

Can people say sillier and stupider stuff?

Using your loose definition of Dens of debauchery. These are also dens of debauchery.

1. banks
2. Malls
3. Grocery stores
4. Churches
5. Golf courses

You might have gone to night clubs to do evil, but that’s not why everyone goes.

 

[MartyF]

One more thing about those photos. It is clear that his son and daughter-in-law went and had a nice time. The photo of Falwell himself was blown up so far that it could be anyone which looks somewhat like him. It could be me! Kinda looks like me.

This is a surreal forum thread.

 

[Shoostie]

Can people say sillier and stupider stuff?

Using your loose definition of Dens of debauchery. These are also dens of debauchery.

1. banks
2. Malls
3. Grocery stores
4. Churches
5. Golf courses

You might have gone to night clubs to do evil, but that’s not why everyone goes.

Can people say sillier stuff? You indeed did say sillier stuff. comparing a rave-ish night club with a mall or church is just dumb.

 

[MartyF]

Can people say sillier stuff? You indeed did say sillier stuff. comparing a rave-ish night club with a mall or church is just dumb.

How are they different?

 

[Shoostie]

How are they different?

Seriously? Malls are provided for people to buy clothing and other things. Churches are built for people to come together and fellowship and worship God. Rave night clubs are built to get people drunk, share illegal drugs, and hook up for fornication.

You do understand what kind of establishment this is? It's not a neighborhood bar or a bar at a restaurant.

You also should understand Falwell's hypocrisy, even if he did go to just drink (but, not get drunk), while supporting a business built for getting people drunk and laid. Maybe he didn't drink, but he doesn't give us that option. He said he didn't go there, when he did. And, his family did drink.

If he had hired a male prostitute, and then denied it, would you assume he just wanted a guy to watch football with, and that we should drop the criticism? Speaking of male prostitutes, should we just assume he gave a pool boy a 1.8 million dollar "loan" so he'd have a pal to watch football with?

 

[Reynolds]

I stated it as fact because it is a fact.

33 For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ 34 The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ 35 Yet wisdom is justified by all her children.”

The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Lk 7:33–35.

While I personally agree with your interpretation of the passage, it is not universally accepted by. Many contend "eating and drinking" did not literally mean drinking alcohol. It was symbolic of living a normal life as opposed to the life John the Baptist lived.

 

[Shoostie]

While I personally agree with your interpretation of the passage, it is not universally accepted by. Many contend "eating and drinking" did not literally mean drinking alcohol. It was symbolic of living a normal life as opposed to the life John the Baptist lived.

There's absolutely no valid argument that Jesus didn't drink. Jesus told us he drank, that settles it. Jesus told us why the pharisees called him a drunkard (literally, "wine drinker"), because he in fact did drink, not because he lived a "normal life" (whatever that desperate attempt to escape the clear teaching of the Bible means).

The Pharisees opposed drinking because they were self-righteous.

John's abstinence was a form of fasting, having nothing to do with disapproval of drinking, any more than fasting from food implies disapproval of food.

 

[Reformed1689]

While I personally agree with your interpretation of the passage, it is not universally accepted by. Many contend "eating and drinking" did not literally mean drinking alcohol. It was symbolic of living a normal life as opposed to the life John the Baptist lived.

People who say its not literal alcohol only do so because of their preconceived idea of alcohol being sinful, not from actual Scripture.