Liberty U. and the False Prophet

[1689Dave]

I believe you are missing the big picture as to what Paul is conveying. Gifts are necessary to Build up others in Love until the Return of Christ--as they are the In-working and out-working of the Spirit of God in the Body of Christ.

1 Cor. 1
4 I always thank my God for you because of his grace given you in Christ Jesus.5 For in him you have been enriched in every way—with all kinds of speech and with all knowledge— 6 God thus confirming our testimony about Christ among you.7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

One day, Faith will not be necessary, Hope will be irrelevant, but Love will remain--so God uses gifts and his Word to bring us into the fullness of the Stature of Christ--Perfect Love. Hence why Paul says in the very next Chapter...

14 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy.

The BIBLE Tells us about these necessary gifts. Since the Bible is complete, to say that the gifts had ceased makes the bible INCOMPLETE since we learn of the Gifts through the Bible.

Paul said to see that you come behind in no gift waiting for the revelation of Jesus. And Tongues expired when the book of Revelation completed the canon.

 

[John of Japan]

Well, this thread went south pretty quickly. The OP had nothing to do with tongues, whether or not the Bible is perfect, etc. It was about a leading evangelical university and someone I termed a false prophet.

 

[John of Japan]

The bible is perfect and does a better job than the gifts. It's that simple.

The Bible is perfect. So is Jesus. So is Heaven. So is the Gospel. So are many other things. So the request for you to prove your point was valid.

But that is moot. It is not what the thread is about. If you want to post about prophecy or about Liberty U., I'll accept that.

 

[Reynolds]

I take it you do not believe God's word is perfect?

Even so, Paul contrasts tongues, interpretation of tongues, and knowledge with love, faith and hope. If as some say, prophecy, tongues and interpretation remain until the end of the world, Paul's comparison is meaningless.

Jesus Christ is perfect. The "perfect" in that passage is Him at His second advent.

 

[JonShaff]

Well, this thread went south pretty quickly. The OP had nothing to do with tongues, whether or not the Bible is perfect, etc. It was about a leading evangelical university and someone I termed a false prophet.

I apologize, brother.

 

[John of Japan]

Concerning the OP, I have a couple of points.

1. There are two types of prophecy in Scripture: foretelling and forth-telling. I believe that foretelling prophecy ceased with the completion of the canon. On the other hand, forth-telling prophecy--in the sense that the preacher preaches against sin, is still happening.

2. Foretelling prophecy is revelation--in other words, it is applicable to all mankind, or perhaps to one nation. This is what Mark Taylor is purporting to do, give prophecies for all of the USA. If he had simply given God's guidance for one person, perhaps himself, there would be no revelation. God still guides us, though the canon of Scripture is closed.

3. Since Mark Taylor was wrong on one prophecy (see the OP), the one about the horse race (of all the silly things to prophesy about), he is a false prophet. A true prophet of God is accurate 100% of the time (Deut. 18:22).

 

[John of Japan]

I apologize, brother.

That's quite all right.

 

[John of Japan]

It's really disturbing for me that even one department at Liberty has chosen to honor this false prophet. Jerry Falwell was ostensibly a friend of my grandfather's, and I met him at Granddad's funeral. He had my mother come to give testimony at his church about John R. Rice, and Mom was all sold on Falwell. But then Falwell did not even mention Rice in either of his two autobiographies (really? two of them).

And now Liberty U. might be headed down the heretical Charismatic lane. I devoutly hope not.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

The cessation of prophecy is established in the 70th week, as is the destruction of Jerusalem. All stems from the 70th week being fulfilled by Christ.

the definition of cessation
Cessation: a temporary or complete stopping; discontinuance:

While prophecy has ceased, fulfillment has not. Or, do you disagree? If you take the position the fulfillment has ceased, then that will end the discussion. However, if you agree there is prophecy yet to be fulfilled, is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb included? Or, identify any number of other prophecies yet to be fulfilled.

Thanks for your response.

 

[1689Dave]

the definition of cessation
Cessation: a temporary or complete stopping; discontinuance:

While prophecy has ceased, fulfillment has not. Or, do you disagree? If you take the position the fulfillment has ceased, then that will end the discussion. However, if you agree there is prophecy yet to be fulfilled, is the Marriage Supper of the Lamb included? Or, identify any number of other prophecies yet to be fulfilled.

Thanks for your response.

We are still looking for fulfillment of some of the prophetic scriptures, but prophecy has ceased.

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus Christ is perfect. The "perfect" in that passage is Him at His second advent.

Here's the catch. Paul said;

“so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.” (1 Corinthians 1:7–9)

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

used for Revelation by Paul and John

 

[1689Dave]

The Bible is perfect. So is Jesus. So is Heaven. So is the Gospel. So are many other things. So the request for you to prove your point was valid.

But that is moot. It is not what the thread is about. If you want to post about prophecy or about Liberty U., I'll accept that.

And all prophecy to day is false.

 

[1689Dave]

Well, this thread went south pretty quickly. The OP had nothing to do with tongues, whether or not the Bible is perfect, etc. It was about a leading evangelical university and someone I termed a false prophet.

It had to do with false prophecy and that involves all the charismatic gifts now long gone.

 

[Reynolds]

Here's the catch. Paul said;

“so that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ; who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye be unreproveable in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, through whom ye were called into the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.” (1 Corinthians 1:7–9)

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show unto his servants, even the things which must shortly come to pass: and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John;” (Revelation 1:1)

All of the gifts expired, and history confirms this, as John published Revelation.


602. ἀποκάλυψις apŏkalupsis, ap-ok-al´-oop-sis; from 601; disclosure:—appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 14).

used for Revelation by Paul and John

No catch, just misapplied scripture.

 

[1689Dave]

No catch, just misapplied scripture.

Paul says to seek the gifts until the Revelation of Jesus Christ. The exact title of John's book of Revelation. It doesn't get any more scriptural that this.

 

[John of Japan]

It had to do with false prophecy and that involves all the charismatic gifts now long gone.

You are wrong. Prophecy is only one of the charismatic gifts, and you are in error to say "that involves all the charismatic gifts." The lists in Rom. 12 and 1 Cor. 12 list prophecy as one of the gifts. The part can never equal the whole.

It appears to me that you are making an excuse for hijacking my thread.

 

[John of Japan]

And all prophecy to day is false.

All of what prophecy? Forth-telling or foretelling?

In Acts 2, the prophesying being done was simply what we call soul-winning. Do you suggest that winning souls to Christ is false?

 

[1689Dave]

You are wrong. Prophecy is only one of the charismatic gifts, and you are in error to say "that involves all the charismatic gifts." The lists in Rom. 12 and 1 Cor. 12 list prophecy as one of the gifts. The part can never equal the whole.

It appears to me that you are making an excuse for hijacking my thread.

They all came and went together.

 

[1689Dave]

All of what prophecy? Forth-telling or foretelling?

Anything not already stated in scripture.

 

[John of Japan]

Anything not already stated in scripture.

You really don't know what I'm talking about when I differentiate between forth-telling and foretelling, do you?