Life Elsewhere in the Universe

[seekingthetruth]

I'm not getting huffy at all, nor did I compare YOU to a cultist. I merely stated that what you were saying sounded like the Urantia stuff I've read about. I never stated I felt you were the way, and I don't feel that way at all based on some of your comments saying that you don't necessarily believe this yourself. You're just trying to expand.

This is a fascinating conversation. I agree. And while I, as much as anyone, would love to see some cool real life Star Wars stuff, it's just not biblically supported.

As far as the "traditional thinking" statement, that can't apply at this point, because humans have left our planet. The Universe is completely relevant to us now, because we have survived outside of the planet. People have lived at various points in space. We haven't been 100% confined to planet earth (well, yes, we have, but you see what I'm saying).

Again, you keep bringing up God's obligations to us. God really isn't obligated to anything, minus what he has already promised us in the scriptures. But he did give us a brain to think with, and spelled many things out in the scriptures.

Our complex issues for understanding things here are our own faults. Our sinful natures. Not something God has forced down upon us. You assume that God hasn't given us the insight to see it, but we can't open our eyes to understand how simple it really is.

I agree with your statement here except for one thing. When we go to the moon or send a probe out, we are still confined to our solar system. We cannot (at least at this point in time) exceed the gravitational pull of our sun. And there are billions more suns out there with trillions of planets, so no, we have not left the confines of our planet. Our minscule probing of space is like a drop of water in the ocean.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

He specifically singled out a singular Earth. If our planet wasn't special...if our planet wasn't meant to be the only one, it wouldn't have been said that way. All of the stuff he tells us, but this one he'd just choose not to tell us?

If you want to call that narrowminded, that's fine. I think it's very open minded and a very logical way to think.

There is only one Earth, and it is the only planet that we live on. But how does that prove that we are all there is?

I am not trying to prove that life exists elsewhere, because I cant. But neither can I prove it doesnt.

Nor can anyone else.

John

 

[freeatlast]

Did He state that there was no other life in the heavens?

John

If you say prove then you cannot prove there is even a God. However based on scripture there are no other beings. He stated all that He created in the physical realm during the 6 day creation. The absence of other physical beings means they are not there.

 

[revmwc]

Why would it say that? Do you know any aliens? If not, then why would it be our business. Why would we need to know?

Ok, lets go further. The Bible says that man fell into sin. How do you that if there are other worlds that they fell also? You assume that the universe centers around the Earth, and in our minds it does. But the truth is that we have no idea what the universe contains....or what is beyond it for that matter.

God is not obligated to reveal the secrets of the universe.

John

The bible says ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Colosians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


Philipians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

These all seem real clear that Christ taking on the form of man became payment for man's sin, animals blood could pay the price, their blood was merely a covering. Christ had to become one of us to pay for our sin and yet scripture says His payment was "...by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven..." and yet He never took on the form of an alien being other than man being alien to Him and He must take on that form. God made it abundantly clear that Christ reconciled all things, in His death, Salvation comes by Faith in Him as the God-Man, not the God-Man-Alien.

 

[seekingthetruth]

The bible says ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

Colosians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:


Philipians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



Hebrews 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

These all seem real clear that Christ taking on the form of man became payment for man's sin, animals blood could pay the price, their blood was merely a covering. Christ had to become one of us to pay for our sin and yet scripture says His payment was "...by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven..." and yet He never took on the form of an alien being other than man being alien to Him and He must take on that form. God made it abundantly clear that Christ reconciled all things, in His death, Salvation comes by Faith in Him as the God-Man, not the God-Man-Alien.

Where is heaven? Are other planets in heaven? Heaven is a spiritual place, planets are very physical. So, I dont see how this scripture proves that there is not other life on other planets.

And when it says "all have sinned"? Is it referring to the universe or to man?

Christ didnt die on Venus, He died here for the sins of THISworld.

I dont see what Christ's sacrifice would have to do with other planets, (if life exists there). If there is other life on other planets, then how would they know about Christ dieing for them on this planet? Your argument is not logical.

Christ died for the sins of man, on Earth. The fact that He died for our sins does not disprove life elsewhere.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

If you say prove then you cannot prove there is even a God. However based on scripture there are no other beings. He stated all that He created in the physical realm during the 6 day creation. The absence of other physical beings means they are not there.

He said he created the heavens and the Earth, he did not reveal to us what the heavens are composed of.

So, if i don't reveal to you that I own a cat, then it simply cannot exist?

John

 

[revmwc]

Where is heaven? Are other planets in heaven? Heaven is a spiritual place, planets are very physical. So, I dont see how this scripture proves that there is not other life on other planets.

And when it says "all have sinned"? Is it referring to the universe or to man?

Christ didnt die on Venus, He died here for the sins of THISworld.

I dont see what Christ's sacrifice would have to do with other planets, (if life exists there). If there is other life on other planets, then how would they know about Christ dieing for them on this planet? Your argument is not logical.

Christ died for the sins of man, on Earth. The fact that He died for our sins does not disprove life elsewhere.

John

Heaven is:
3. God's dwelling place
2. The stars and planets
3. The atmosphere in which the birds fly.

Everything created is under Gods heaven.

 

[revmwc]

He said he created the heavens and the Earth, he did not reveal to us what the heavens are composed of.

So, if i don't reveal to you that I own a cat, then it simply cannot exist?

John

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created

Seems He created all things and revealed to us that He did it.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created

Seems He created all things and revealed to us that He did it.

Ok, agreed, He did reveal that He created all things, but He did not reveal what all of those things are.

We are still discovering new species of life on our planet, why didnt God reveal them?

Seems to me you are taking this out of context to mean that if God didnt inform you about it then it cant exist.

John

 

[seekingthetruth]

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created

Seems He created all things and revealed to us that He did it.

Hey Rev, i find it interesting that you are a pastor and see it the way you do. I have two pastors, and we were talking about this very thing in Sunday School one day. One pastor had the same stance that you do, that since God didnt tell us about it then it simply cant exist. And my other pastor said that just because God didnt tell us about doesnt mean it doesnt esist.

They had a heated discussion, and neither changed their minds.

Again, this topic is about questions, not answers.

john

 

[seekingthetruth]

Heaven is:
3. God's dwelling place
2. The stars and planets
3. The atmosphere in which the birds fly.

Everything created is under Gods heaven.

Heavens, in Genesis is referring to space, physical space that God created.

Heaven, as in God's dwelling place is a spiritual place. Did God create his dwelling place? Where did He live before that?

They are two distinct different uses of the word heaven. The heaven where God lives is not the same as the heavens He created in Genesis.

John

 

[HeirofSalvation]

While Earth, and subsequently mankind does indeed seem to occupy a unique and special place in the intentions of God...We are assuming too much to say that it is impossible that God has created life or other forms of life other than that which he has created here. If he did create others, I would suggest that:
1.) It would probably be intelligent forms of life
2.) We assume too much if we assume they experienced a "Fall" as we have
3.) If they had experienced a "Fall" or loss of innocence in the same way we have: God's justice may or may not require the same form of atonement for their "sin" that he has for us....
4.) To assume that there must necessarily be a Redemptive sacrifice or other manifestation of Christ is to assume too much: Angels are intelligent beings with at least some measure of free will and corrruptibility, and yet Jesus did not die for them as well. Arguing that there would have to be a second sacrifice for sin is I think, invalid.
5.) Intelligent life is not necessarilly life that is made "in the image of God", that is a distinction which seems to be unique to mankind.

I tend to think that there is not intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. But we are assuming too much to be dogmatic about it.

 

[seekingthetruth]

While Earth, and subsequently mankind does indeed seem to occupy a unique and special place in the intentions of God...We are assuming too much to say that it is impossible that God has created life or other forms of life other than that which he has created here. If he did create others, I would suggest that:
1.) It would probably be intelligent forms of life
2.) We assume too much if we assume they experienced a "Fall" as we have
3.) If they had experienced a "Fall" or loss of innocence in the same way we have: God's justice may or may not require the same form of atonement for their "sin" that he has for us....
4.) To assume that there must necessarily be a Redemptive sacrifice or other manifestation of Christ is to assume too much: Angels are intelligent beings with at least some measure of free will and corrruptibility, and yet Jesus did not die for them as well. Arguing that there would have to be a second sacrifice for sin is I think, invalid.
5.) Intelligent life is not necessarilly life that is made "in the image of God", that is a distinction which seems to be unique to mankind.

I tend to think that there is not intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. But we are assuming too much to be dogmatic about it.[/QUOTE]

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

"I tend to think that there is not intelligent life elsewhere in the Universe. But we are assuming too much to be dogmatic about it"

This is exactly what i have been trying to point out. thank you

John

 

[agedman]

It is true that God certainly revealed that He is the creator of all things.

However, the Creator of all things could certainly have created and not revealed to His creation all that He created. Do not forget that the Scriptures record that certain things are sealed and not revealed.

I recall an old movie in which folks were living in a bubble but didn't know it. Life in the bubble was well regulated and continued as it always had until someone started asking questions. It was funny when a young man rowed across the water and bumped into the wall and a spotlight fell into the water.

The attributes of God cannot diminish nor be unused. One of His great attributes is that He is The Creator. He will create and continue to create.

Space is not the final frontier!

 

[preachinjesus]

Of all the conversations we have around here this one is so ridiculous. It's an entirely speculative one for all sides.

We have no way of knowing this and no way of knowing it at any point in the foreseeable future. If there is intelligent life, clearly God has a plan and who are we to judge? If there isn't, then who cares. The Bible is wholly silent in this.

Just a silly discussion to be dogmatic about.

 

[quantumfaith]

It is true that God certainly revealed that He is the creator of all things.

However, the Creator of all things could certainly have created and not revealed to His creation all that He created. Do not forget that the Scriptures record that certain things are sealed and not revealed.

I recall an old movie in which folks were living in a bubble but didn't know it. Life in the bubble was well regulated and continued as it always had until someone started asking questions. It was funny when a young man rowed across the water and bumped into the wall and a spotlight fell into the water.

The attributes of God cannot diminish nor be unused. One of His great attributes is that He is The Creator. He will create and continue to create.

Space is not the final frontier!

"Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated".

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

I agree with your statement here except for one thing. When we go to the moon or send a probe out, we are still confined to our solar system. We cannot (at least at this point in time) exceed the gravitational pull of our sun. And there are billions more suns out there with trillions of planets, so no, we have not left the confines of our planet. Our minscule probing of space is like a drop of water in the ocean.

John

Our solar system is still massive. We have left planet earth, it's really as simple as that. So yes, while we are probing one drop of water in the ocean's worth of space, we have left the confinement of our planet. Mars would be feasibly attainable as well. While the technology to explore our solar system may never come to fruition, I doubt the people in the 1600's thought we'd be able to fly across the oceans at speeds of 600MPH or greater.

The Bible is clear about things, and God isn't deceptive.

 

[saturneptune]

Of all the conversations we have around here this one is so ridiculous. It's an entirely speculative one for all sides.

We have no way of knowing this and no way of knowing it at any point in the foreseeable future. If there is intelligent life, clearly God has a plan and who are we to judge? If there isn't, then who cares. The Bible is wholly silent in this.

Just a silly discussion to be dogmatic about.

Every subject does not have to be dogmatic or argumentative. Some subjects are fascinating to talk about. Maybe the question of intelligent life in the universe should include earth.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

Every subject does not have to be dogmatic or argumentative. Some subjects are fascinating to talk about. Maybe the question of intelligent life in the universe should include earth.

I do agree that it's fun to talk about, that's for sure.



What constitutes intelligent life? If it is out there, is it like us? Is it much more advanced? Or is it stone aged like?


If we are created in the likeness of God...and then we make an assumption that possibly God did create other intelligent life, would it then too look like God, or would he make stuff not in his image?

I just think that Christ died for all mankind. So unless this intelligent life isn't a "man" of sorts, then to me it trivializes Christ's death if he didn't die for everyone. And the Bible doesn't say that Christ died for people on Earth, and on other planets.

 

[Bobby Hamilton]

Of course...it could be said that most sure sign of intelligent life elsewhere is that it hasn't tried to contact us...lol.


I wouldn't want to get involved with Earth's affairs. What a mess.